Why do the Live Players......

[RichC.]

...suck so bad? Seriously. I have logged enough hours live and online to make the a decent judgement call here, IMO. I play online for the tournies mostly and live for the cash games and some tournies. So why is it that it seems that live players are so damn terrible? I would think that people who play live would play a bit better. Most players I see are VERY Weak and cant play post flop or deep stacked poker. They seem to have very little understanding of simple concepts beyond pot odds. So why is that live players are so damn terrible? Maybe its who I am seeing more of lately, not sure, but in the past few weeks, only one player has been a real challenge in post flop play. He was a total LAG like me. I'm not complaining, but at the same time, I like a bit of a challenge too.

So once again, why do live players suck so bad?

[TrueBritt]

They are there for entertainment. Poker for them is just another -ev form of gambling like blackjack or craps.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
They are there for entertainment. Poker for them is just another -ev form of gambling like blackjack or craps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or bingo.

Yep.

The game is also alot slower than online so they won't bust out near as easily/quick and their playing money is more easily replenishable.

b

[StevieG]

For many of them, playing a tight aggressive game is hard.

For some, folding goes against the reason they are there. Don't assume they are there to win, many are there to play.

For others, being aggressive goes against another erason they play, which is to socialize.

Many people also cannot help but look for patterns, and so when they see a few flops in a row with hearts or 5s or whatever, they start playing trash for an orbit or two. And then they just switch what trash they play based on what has been on the board lately.

You could write a book (and Schoonmaker did).

[n.s.]

This has been done to death, but I'll chime in anyways. Here's my theories:

-Online offers much lower stakes. A newbie player who knows he not any good can jump into a $0.25-$0.50 game online, while this same player is going to be forced to play $3-$6 or higher in many casinos.

-It's easy for live players to fool themselves into thinking they are winners when they are not. Lots of them don't even try to remember how many times they bought in, how many times they went to the ATM, how much they spend on food and drink, etc... They just remember that they dragged some big pots and forget all the money they donked off. For online players, it's a lot harder to fool yourself. Depositing onto the site takes more work, there's a record created of it, and it's hard to ignore your online account balance being half of what it was the day before. I think lots of losing online players are forced to face the fact, so they either try play better, stop playing, or move down in stakes.

-I think that social pressures makes many live players more passive. Most people have a natural aversion to confrontation, so it's harder to raise someone (especially on a bluff) when looking them in eye. Just like how everyone's a tough guy on the internet, online it's easy to just click "raise" and be more of a bully. Most low-limit players play way too passive, so when they play more agressively, it makes the game tougher.

-Boredom. I think this one is a huge reason. Playing solid poker requires lots and lots of folding. Online, action junkies can just open more tables (and even at one table there is many more hands/hour). Many good players lack the required discipline to play well live when card dead. Likewise, online it's easy to just quit when you are tired or playing bad, but many live players drive for hours to get to the cardroom, so they feel the need to play for as long as they can, since they can't just log on again in the morning (I actually suffer from this sometimes).

-Alcohol. Every cardroom serves drinks, and there is a bar-like atmosphere that encourages drinking, with people buying each other shots and such (or free alcohol in vegas). Getting drunk will make pretty much anyone play badly.

[Bulbarainey]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting drunk will make pretty much anyone play badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont always agree with that... after the 11th shot my omaha game becomes top notch

[MVPSPORTS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Getting drunk will make pretty much anyone play badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont always agree with that... after the 11th shot my omaha game becomes top notch

[/ QUOTE ]

After 11 shots, are you sure you're playing Omaha and not just seein double?

[Percula]

Play higher, your opinion might change...

[Brad1970]

In my experience, most low limit players (2/4, 3/6, 4/8 etc) are exactly as Truebritt described it. Nothing but a bunch of donkeys. On avg 5-7 people going to the river every hand banging the pot the whole way & a wired pair of ducks wins it all. It's unreal. It's a great way to make money if you have the bankroll for the swings & the stomach/temperment for the variance.

The NL group, in my experience, is about half & half. You have some TAG players & you have some bona fide gambooolers. There are also some of the slow-playing, trapsetters sprinkled in there too for good measure. But, I do see alot of overvaluing of hands by most of the NL crowd especially at the 1/2 tables. I don't know if they are there to gamble it up or if they really believe they have the best hand.

[FireStorm]

People are simply there to gamble it up and often play far too many hands out of sheer boredom. Online, you go 15 hands without seeing anything playable, it takes 10-12 minutes. You also can open another table and ignore the issue. Live, 15 unplayable hands = a half hour minimum in which you have nothing to do. Many live players also aren't serious players in the sense that they're out to have a good time and don't really think deep enough to assess that KQs might be beat in a hand that gets 4bet preflop.