Calling 3-cold on the button: When?

[Howard Beale]

I'm going to lay out what is mostly (to me at least) a LC hand that I've been thinking about from a few days ago w/ a 2 part question the second of which I am hoping will generate a useful discussion.

The hand:

BB is a bad player. UTG is a decent, thinking player who I don't have much time against but seems to be ok. Button is new to me as is SB. Button is a youngish Asian fellow, SB also Asian and older. Each seem to be familiar with the game and they apparently know each other. I get the impression from his style, attitude and confidence that Button is not to be trifled with although I have not gotten into any hands against him.

UTG raises, I 3-bet w/ A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], button, SB, BB and UTG call.

Flop:

A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB and BB check. UTG bets, I raise, button folds, SB says 'Oh, well...' and calls, BB calls.

Turn:

9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] All check to me, I bet, SB calls, BB folds, UTG looks and what both he and I know is an inferior Ace and folds.

River:

9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB bets and I think back to that 'Oh, well....' when he called the flop. I think for a few seconds and decide that this is either a total bluff or I am crushed and that there is no point in raising so I just call.

The minor question: Anybody want to raise here?

My main question:

I 'get it' with bad players but I have a hard time understanding why and with what hands a decent seeming player just calls 3-bets with on the button. Maybe I'm not enough of a 'gambelero'.

I'd like to know from you folks what you think of cold calling 3 on the button and with what hands you're willing to do it.

Thanks.

[threeonefour]

i wouldn't do it ever. but when i first started playing limit i can't exactly remember but i strongly suspect i was unable to fold suited broadway hands like JT QJ KQ KJ AQ AJ AT? (royal flush draw obv) and 77+. i was a 2+2er at this point, but i don't think Holdem for Advanced Players had a very strict preflop guidelines chart, or a chart at all. this guy very likely had 22-77 or 76s or something, those are 'fun' hands to play that *can* hit big.

RE: the minor question, raising is massive -EV you are either crushed or its a bluff. i am guessing you are crushed.

[Hass]

I don't ever call 3 cold ever. And for the hand I think you're crushed, so I couldn't raise here. The only hand I can put him on is a flush draw with a 9. I don't know if that is a good read or not.

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't ever call 3 cold ever. And for the hand I think you're crushed, so I couldn't raise here. The only hand I can put him on is a flush draw with a 9. I don't know if that is a good read or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jacks full is also a possiblity, although I'd have expected a turn c/r from that hand.

[Hass]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't ever call 3 cold ever. And for the hand I think you're crushed, so I couldn't raise here. The only hand I can put him on is a flush draw with a 9. I don't know if that is a good read or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jacks full is also a possiblity, although I'd have expected a turn c/r from that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is possible. I would expect a cap pf or a turn c/r from that hand, like you said.

[cgrohman]

I wan to raise so very very badly, but I dont. Last time I called in this spot, the donker showed me high card. My guess for this hand is K9ss.

Your 3 bets? No such hand exists. Other peoples, I cold call three with AK sometimes and JJ sometimes, I almost always 4 bet QQ and if I play 99 or 1010 I 4 bet them as well.

[cgrohman]

Yea, AK. I do it a lot, maybe too much. My thought process is a) the blinds are goign to fold for 3 bets anyway, the intial raiser isnt going anywhere, and I may be up against a pair and want to see a cheap turn. If these conditions arent met, I usually 4 bet.

[private joker]

Every time I see anyone cold-call 3 bets, I always assume it's JJ. They virtually never disappoint me.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
Every time I see anyone cold-call 3 bets, I always assume it's JJ. They virtually never disappoint me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes they have TT/AQ/AK. TT/JJ are the most likely imo

[bigjoet]

is sb is LP, he's not gonna 3 bet u w/ trip 9's, so maybe this is an argument for a raise?