Please can I just win one hand 10/20 2-7

[HOWMANY]

First hand at the table, unknown villain

Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($10/$20) (.com/greenage22/Triple_Draw/Converter.html]converter)

SB ($1284.50), Seat 2
Hero ($500), Seat 3
UTG ($304.50), Seat 5
CO ($1634), Seat 6
Button ($258), Seat 1

Button at Seat 1.
SB posts $5. Hero posts $10.

Hand: [Qh As 2h 3h 4h]

Round 1: (1.50 SB)

<font color="red">UTG raises. </font><font color="#666666">CO folds. </font><font color="#666666">Button folds. </font><font color="#666666">SB folds. </font><font color="green">Hero calls. </font>
Hero discards Qh As. UTG takes 2.

Hand: [2h 3h 4h Th 7c]

Round 2: (4.50 SB)

<font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="green">UTG calls. </font>
Hero discards Th. UTG takes 2.

Hand: [2h 3h 4h 7c 9s]

Round 3: (3.25 BB)

<font color="red">Hero bets. </font><font color="red">UTG raises. </font><font color="green">Hero calls. </font>
Hero stands pat. UTG stands pat.

Hand: [2h 3h 4h 7c 9s]

Round 4: (7.25 BB)

<font color="green">Hero checks. </font><font color="red">UTG bets. </font><font color="#666666">Hero? </font>

[*TT*]

your 9 is no good, dump it when he raises. Remember your out of position.

[iron81]

I dunno. Villain was drawing two so he could think hero was betting while still drawing on round 3. I'll sometimes raise a T or a worse 9 in villains spot. I like calling and patting round 3. I lean toward folding the river though because no one value bets a T when the other guy is pat.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. Villain was drawing two so he could think hero was betting while still drawing on round 3. I'll sometimes raise a T or a worse 9 in villains spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

think distribution of hands. Your 2.7:1 vs the a better 9 (hero's 9 is kinda sucky), and you can probably make up the bets you lost by calling on the river. Don't be blinded by your opponent's draw 2, people get there. If your options are pat-call raise - fold to a river bet or draw 1 card, drawing 1 card is the equitable decision.

[iron81]

I think you're being too generous with 2.7:1. If we're breaking a 9 its because we're pretty sure an 8-7 is no good so we need to make a 7. If we need to make a 7, its a small pot so we don't have the odds to break. Personally, I'd rather 3 bet/pat round 3 than call/break because villain will likely break an 8-7 if we 3 bet/pat.

The problem with 3 betting is that then we have to check the river which turns our hand face up as weak regardless of whether we got villain to break. This means we have to pay off a bet

[InWithTheBest]

Against agressive players that will raise any two-drawn jack or better in this it's a leak to break this 9.. The problem is how to play after he raises, because against this type of player if you 3 bet and he 4 bets his cap doesn't mean much. If you just call and stand pat you are going to be in a lot of gross river spots. I think your line is okay, but unless hes really tricky you should fold.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're being too generous with 2.7

[/ QUOTE ]
this isnt an estimate, its a mathematical fact. Explore Mark's calculator to save some time instead of doing the calculations by hand, its a good convenience. Vs any hand that is a perfect 9 or better hero is 4:1 against improving to a winning hand. Keep in mind that if you peel, catch another 9 and call its the exact same thing as standing pat with the 9.


[ QUOTE ]
If we're breaking a 9 its because we're pretty sure an 8-7 is no good so we need to make a 7. If we need to make a 7, its a small pot so we don't have the odds to break.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) you have the odds to break, its not a small pot. Your getting 6:1 in a situation where your 4:1 against improving to the winner (or 2.7 or so against to improving to a hand better than a 9) plus there is the added benefit of implied odds - nice overlay!

2) you break a 9 because its a bad 9, not because you think the opponent has a 7 or an 8. 97234 is a rough hand. Of course it could be rougher, but its rough. There are more 9's that he will raise that beat us than we will beat.


[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I'd rather 3 bet/pat round 3 than call/break because villain will likely break an 8-7 if we 3 bet/pat.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain isn't going to break a hand that we beat, your 3-bet is spewing. I love to play against opponents who 3-bet here with a 97xxx, its burning money.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with 3 betting is that then we have to check the river which turns our hand face up as weak regardless of whether we got villain to break. This means we have to pay off a bet

[/ QUOTE ]

you put yourself in that situation by 3-betting. If he bets the river after you 3-bet then you are a nearly guaranteed loser in the hand, your just donating another bet to the opponent.

IWTB is right that always breaking the 9 here is bad, there are opponents I'd be hesitant to break against even though it is mathematically the correct line is to break because its exploitable. Baring any read that tells me I should stand pat breaking is the optimal play.

[HOWMANY]

Yeah I pat and then c/f river. I pretty much always c/c river in this spot and I cannot remember ever winning so I tried folding once. The degen in me hates not seeing a showdown but the 10/20 on Stars just seems so straight forward like every time I play it.

If it was someone I was more familiar with I would be much more likely to take one of the lines IWTB suggested. Against someone I've never played against on my very first hand I have no reason to think he is bluffing and certainly not value betting worse.

[palman]

If you're always breaking here you're going to be exploitable. I don't know if timing tells on stars have been discussed here, but in spots like this, a c/f on the river is automatic if your opponnent put auto pat on, it's one of the more reliable tells in the game.

I don't mind all three options, breaking, calling and patting and 3 betting and patting, all three should be done at times.