20/180 PS - AA first hand

jus_nutz · #1 09-05-2006, 02:02 PM

first hand and i limp aa under the gun ... everything ok like this or would u play differently?? didnt expect this many callers ... so how to do after flop?

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)
Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
BB (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero calls t20, UTG+1 raises to t40, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t40, CO calls t40, Button calls t40, SB calls t30, BB calls t20, Hero raises to t200, UTG+1 calls t160, MP3 calls t160, CO folds, Button calls t160, SB calls t160, BB calls t160

Flop: (t1260) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets t200, Hero raises to t1300 (All-in), UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls t1100 (All-in)

Turn: (t3860) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t3860) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

mornelth · #2 09-05-2006, 02:04 PM

ummm, bad beat?...

Jeff76 · #3 09-05-2006, 02:08 PM

lol- how did I know this was going to be a "I limped with aces" post? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
didnt expect this many callers ... so how to do after flop?

[/ QUOTE ]Your PF raise was way to small given the action. You have telegraphed your hand here so now you've got to get heads up, and betting the pot isn't going to do it. Your first raiser is probably going to call, since he likes his hand, and then everyone behind is doing to get tremendous odds to call. You do not want a big, multiway pot here. You need to send a message with your raise that you are going to play for stacks and anyone who calls better be ready to gamble. I am probably raising to around 300 here.

Oh, and given the action I'm pushing this flop.

jus_nutz · #4 09-05-2006, 02:14 PM

u think that 100 makes makes more plrs lay down that call 200??? i dont - no difference, if then all in is my 2nd choice i am happy with pf play .. what u think postflop?

Jeff76 · #5 09-05-2006, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
u think that 100 makes makes more plrs lay down that call 200???

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, I do. Though really, I'd probably go even higher- maybe 400. But you really don't want to give players a shot at a pot with 600 for only 160, then 800 for 160, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
what u think postflop?

[/ QUOTE ]I'd play it the same postflop, but I wouldn't like it against so many.

Imrahil · #6 09-05-2006, 02:27 PM

I'd probably just push PF after your limp. These guys can't get away from hands.

mornelth · #7 09-05-2006, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
u think that 100 makes makes more plrs lay down that call 200??? i dont - no difference, if then all in is my 2nd choice i am happy with pf play .. what u think postflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not about 100 chips - it's about cutting down their implied pot odds.

betgo · #8 09-05-2006, 02:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
u think that 100 makes makes more plrs lay down that call 200??? i dont - no difference, if then all in is my 2nd choice i am happy with pf play .. what u think postflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not about 100 chips - it's about cutting down their implied pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's also about chips. You want to build the pot with AA.

Jeff76 · #9 09-05-2006, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's also about chips. You want to build the pot with AA.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, but you don't want to do it in a way that leaves you the most vulnerable to getting stacked and allows your opponents to play perfect poker. This raise screams AA while letting just about any hand play against them profitably. This is the problem with limp/raising- you are going to telegraph your hand and end up playing out of position with less information than anyone else in the hand. Of course, now you have a huge pot with the nuts, which is always a good thing, but you at least want to prevent your opponents from getting a cheap chance to stack you.

Jeff76 · #10 09-05-2006, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's not about 100 chips - it's about cutting down their implied pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]In fact, let's talk about the guy holding 22 in this case. Since you've just announced AA and comitted yourself to the pot, he can call profitably for 160 and then just fold the flop if he misses. His odds of hitting are 7.5 to 1, so he needs to know that he can win 1200 chips if he sticks in his 160. He is EASILY going to get this, and more. Now if you make it 300, he has to stick in 260 and be certain he can make 1950 if he hits. With the money in the pot + the initial raiser calling your raise + the implied odds of the rest of your stack, this is still a profitable call (barely). At 400 then he has to put in 360 so he needs to be sure that he can get back 2700 if he hits, which he won't get. So he might call anyway, but he'd be making a mistake to do so.

So I revise my 300 to probably around 350 and maybe 400 if I think I can get a caller at that amount.