$60t: AA lost at sea

[frostbrn]

Help on all streets is very welcome and appreciated. I know I misplayed this hand on at least 2 or 3 counts.

No reads on any of the callers yet (none of them are regulars)

TIA

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1330)
Hero (t1490)
MP1 (t1380)
MP2 (t1530)
CO (t1685)
Button (t1475)
SB (t1365)
BB (t3245)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t200</font>, MP1 calls t200, MP2 calls t200, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, BB calls t150

Flop: (t825) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks

Turn: (t825) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets t300</font>, MP1 calls t300, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

River: (t1425) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">MP1 bets t450</font>, Hero ???

[FeNeF]

Wow, that's a pretty ugly spot but I think you have to bet the flop.. and I don't think I can find a fold if you get shoved on. Sucks.

[frostbrn]

Yeah, I thought about betting out, but betting into 3 people? I dunno, I thought the turn was a safe card for me, but his call made me almost certain I was up against either a K or a diamond draw. On the river, I tried as hard as I could but I couldn't think of any hands I was beating that would call the turn bet, and bet like that on the river. I made a crying call and prayed for something like AT or QQ.

[DeathbySuckout]

You gotta bet the flop. Your hand is still good here almost all of the time.

[badkins6]

I'd bet the flop hoping to take it down, if not hopefully get it down to one opponent. If someone calls your flop bet i'd probably go into c/c mode for pot control because if they have a king they won't want to scare you off with big bets. I might fold to a shove on the river, but probably not.

[frostbrn]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet the flop hoping to take it down, if not hopefully get it down to one opponent. If someone calls your flop bet i'd probably go into c/c mode for pot control because if they have a king they won't want to scare you off with big bets. I might fold to a shove on the river, but probably not.

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason, I can't seem to rationalize this logic. If you bet the flop (looks like a good idea now) and get one caller, AND you are looking to control the pot size (basically get to showdown for as cheaply as possible right?), why do you go into c/c mode? It seems to me that if you make a standard C-bet and get called, then check the turn, you are almost certainly

a) way behind in the hand if he bets

b) going to face a bet (if he bets) that will essentially commit your stack to this hand if not now, then definitely on the river.

So why not check the turn for more info instead of already deciding to c/c him down to the river? If he bets, maybe make a fold and get out of a tricky spot?

I don't have all (or any) of the answers here, but this seems like a situation where c/c'ing him down to the river=spewing more often than not.

[badkins6]

The thing that makes this hand tough is the 3 others in the pot. You took initiative before the flop and you still have a good hand and you might be able to take it down right there, so that's why i think a bet is good on the flop. IMO if you check the flop, you have to check the turn also. Nobody is going to think you have a K(because the check on the flop) and they can probably guess that the 9 didn't help you.
If somone does have a K they are going to value bet say 1/2-1/3 of the pot on the turn and river, which are bets that we can call without losing too many chips.
You could also possibly be up against someone with a T in which case they would probably play it passivly because they are worried that you have a K, which agian, makes it good for us.

[crazyrox]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet the flop hoping to take it down, if not hopefully get it down to one opponent. If someone calls your flop bet i'd probably go into c/c mode for pot control because if they have a king they won't want to scare you off with big bets. I might fold to a shove on the river, but probably not.

[/ QUOTE ]

For some reason, I can't seem to rationalize this logic. If you bet the flop (looks like a good idea now) and get one caller, AND you are looking to control the pot size (basically get to showdown for as cheaply as possible right?), why do you go into c/c mode? It seems to me that if you make a standard C-bet and get called, then check the turn, you are almost certainly

a) way behind in the hand if he bets

b) going to face a bet (if he bets) that will essentially commit your stack to this hand if not now, then definitely on the river.

So why not check the turn for more info instead of already deciding to c/c him down to the river? If he bets, maybe make a fold and get out of a tricky spot?

I don't have all (or any) of the answers here, but this seems like a situation where c/c'ing him down to the river=spewing more often than not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the idea of betting the flop the c/c-ing.

A flop bet should narrow it down to TT+, by then you are commited and further betting will only get worse hands to fold. I'd justify the flop bet as there are only 7 hands beating you (4 AK, 3 TT) and 12 hands u beat (6 QQ, 6 JJ).

Ok PF callers are not always going to call flop bet with JJ so reads are (as always) helpful.

I don't see the point of jamming on the flop as you're just folding otherwise possible calling hands that you have beaten and Ak, TT are not folding.

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet the flop hoping to take it down, if not hopefully get it down to one opponent. If someone calls your flop bet i'd probably go into c/c mode for pot control because if they have a king they won't want to scare you off with big bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's with all the references to pot control around here lately? Has everyone been playing too much NL cash?

Your stack here is 1.5 times pot. If you bet the flop, you're 100% committed to the hand. Frankly I think the best approach is to jam your stack in on the flop and cross your fingers.

[badkins6]

[ QUOTE ]

What's with all the references to pot control around here lately? Has everyone been playing too much NL cash?


[/ QUOTE ]

i'm pretty sure pot control is used in sngs too.