Issues at 25c/50c up to 1/2 Stud Hi

[JerBear77]

After playing about 5K hands of StudHi at these levels a couple of things that I have noticed that I have questions/issues about....
Keep in mind i have come from the 2 card game [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

1) It seems that the variance swings in this game are pretty harsh, much more than HE at least on the surface. Granted i have been a losing player over these 5K hands but sessions (around 200 hands) have been around the 15-25BB loosing side or the 5-10BB winning side. I know i have been taking hands too far from the HHs, but is this game have more variance in general?
(Im thinking because we have to pay for EVERY card as it comes out it would seem on the surface that you will tend to loose more than you win on certain types of hands that you are drawing with or are not sure if they are good or not).

2) Im really starting to think that Im putting way too much value in 2 pair/1 pair hands. Split broadway pair, while it may be good on 3rd street loose a ton of value as the streets continue if they are not improved. Almost to the point that if you have 2 pair and there are callers, you should consider your hand beat w/o improvement.

3) How important is it to have a read on the player? In Limit HE for example, A read is less important than it is in NLHE.(At least at the 2/4 and 3/6 levels that I play at and the 50NL games). Solid card sense and the knowledge of the value of hands based on the board prevail at these levels. Should I pay more attention on the doorcards rather than if this player is trying to get sneaky on me?

I really like this game and really want to continue, but Im starting to abandon ship and go back to the game everyone knows....

Thx in advance for your help.

[Poker CPA]

get the life jacket

[Brad1970]

Coupla questions...

How many books have you read on 7 card stud?

Do you have any experience playing stud? and I don't mean with Grandma at the kitchen table for pennies!!!!

What percentage of hands are you playing past 3rd street?



You are correct that stud is a high variance game but if you can master it, then it will be profitable for you in the long term. Keep in mind that holdem & stud are two different games from a nuances persective. What works in one is not necessarily the best play in the other. Just keep reading up on the game, keep asking questions, & most importantly...keep playing. Tight & aggressive is the key.

If you can't beat a nickel, dime, quarter game online..then you're in trouble at higher stakes.

[JerBear77]

[ QUOTE ]
Coupla questions...
How many books have you read on 7 card stud?

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Read Roy West's book and was told on here that its crap. I have reread the 3rd street sections on Slansky a couple of times.

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Do you have any experience playing stud? and I don't mean with Grandma at the kitchen table for pennies!!!!

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Nope, only online at 25c/50c and 1/2. With alot of experience at poker im not playing less than that.

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What percentage of hands are you playing past 3rd street?

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for 2700 hands

VP 24.8
W$WS4 26
W$WS5 34
W$WS6 44
W$WSR 53
W$SD 57

WTSD 18.5 3rd street raise 6.6

[ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that holdem & stud are two different games from a nuances persective. What works in one is not necessarily the best play in the other. Just keep reading up on the game, keep asking questions, & most importantly...keep playing. Tight & aggressive is the key.


[/ QUOTE ]

Im trying not to treat them as the same thing, but on 4th and 5th im finding it difficult on when to continue if I either:

1)Received a little improvement to a weak 2 pair or a 4 card FD and or SD.

2)I really haven't improved but noone else has except maybe someone paired a low doorcard, which if i have a big, live pair I still have a chance (Not sure if that's correct or not).

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]

for 2700 hands

VP 24.8
W$WS4 26
W$WS5 34
W$WS6 44
W$WSR 53
W$SD 57

WTSD 18.5 3rd street raise 6.6

[/ QUOTE ]


You want to translate that for me???

[Poker CPA]

"Air Bradley" to the rescue. What a joke!

Bear it means, at the very least your hand reading skills are very bad. You see and understand your hand, but not the board. These stats are losers at FTP, which is where you play I think. Try Stars but I think holdem is a better choice. And remember to buckle up. Good luck

[JerBear77]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

for 2700 hands

VP 24.8
W$WS4 26
W$WS5 34
W$WS6 44
W$WSR 53
W$SD 57

WTSD 18.5 3rd street raise 6.6

[/ QUOTE ]


You want to translate that for me???

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, used to the HE guys that are stat crazy...

All from PT...

VP is money put in voluntarily, so i guess that's BI as well as Limp along.

W$WS3 = Won Money when seen 3rd

so 4, 5, 6 are all the other streets...R is River.

W$SD = Won money in Show Down

WTSD = Went to show down (when I went to 7th).

3rd Street Raise is how many times i raised on 3rd street (Reraise or I raised the BI).

[Brad1970]

[ QUOTE ]
get the life jacket

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhh...this is soooooo helpful.

JerBear, I hope this useless comment totally helped solve your problems.

[MRBAA]

There is more variance in stud for two basic reasons, imho. First is that there's one more big bet street, which makes pots bigger, justifying thinner calls (ie. you're faced with more relative long shots on later streets that may be worth taking based on pot odds and implied pot odds but will swing your results short term).

Second, since the hands are independent you are much more rarely in a dominating position. AA in he on a KT3 rainbow board is going to get action when opponent has a strong King, yet your opponent is drawing to just five outs, or three outs when you have AK on that board and they have KQ. On the other hand in stud when you have AA vs. rags your opponent can have all kinds of independent holdings that can have you in trouble or at least in a close race.

On a more broad scale, what is your strategy for playing 1-2 limit he? If you provide a quick outline of how you believe you make money there, you may be able to see how the strategies do and don't translate.

[JerBear77]

[ QUOTE ]

On a more broad scale, what is your strategy for playing 1-2 limit he? If you provide a quick outline of how you believe you make money there, you may be able to see how the strategies do and don't translate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets see...i'll try it.

1) Take advantage of opponents that are basically drawing dead when In Position, by smooth calling the flop and raising the turn to get xtra big bets out of them w/o scaring them away.

(Doesn't work in Stud because you never really are ahead w/ one pair or a weak 2 pair, which is the majority of your hands by 5th...plus position constantly is changing.)

2) When you make your draws they are quite obvious so you have to trap opponents to get the maximum payouts.

(Because of FH possibilities with the ease of filling up, flushes and st8s go down in value and sets go up)

3)C/R works quite well and can be used for semi bluffing.

(Not a chance in Stud IMO at least at these levels)

4) Raising Preflop to push people out and get value out of your hand works well with good aggression.

(Preflop raises are called frequently and the fact that your hidden As and Ks can quickly be crap once someone pairs a door card).

Hows that?


FWIW, yes i want to be challenged and think through the answers but i need a little to start.

When i tutor in the MicroHE Id rather have the student come up with the answers then me tell them.


Sooooooo......in conclusion.

By 5th if i don't at least have a set or a strong draw I can probably give my hand up??