QQ hand

SGS · #1 02-23-2006, 02:03 AM

CO has good TAG stats, 17/12. Cold caller is bad.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.66 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (11.33 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

River: (11.33 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13.33 BB

Dazarath · #2 02-23-2006, 02:32 AM

This is the kind of hand to which I used to always respond "call". But now looking at it more, I like the fold. That is, assuming you have the CO down as a straight forward player. I've seen the occasional "taggish" player 3-bet TT on a board like that because they just don't want to give it up or something. But barring rare situations like, there's no hand he 3-bets the flop with that you beat. Though, the fact that he didn't bet the turn leads me to believe he might have a PP < J.

SGS · #3 02-23-2006, 04:26 AM

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Though, the fact that he didn't bet the turn leads me to believe he might have a PP < J.

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I think the fact that he didn't bet the turn makes it look more like he has AA or KK. If he had TT or something I think he would bet the turn as that turn card is actually a good one for him as he was banking on no one being able to beat a J. Now for AA or KK that turn card changes things.

Think about it, say in this hand ur the CO and you have TT, u bet turn and you get check-raised, you are going to lay it down probably. Now switch your cards to AA or KK and we don't want to lay it down. Any sense?

SGS

dayninja · #4 02-23-2006, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though, the fact that he didn't bet the turn leads me to believe he might have a PP < J.

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I think the fact that he didn't bet the turn makes it look more like he has AA or KK. If he had TT or something I think he would bet the turn as that turn card is actually a good one for him as he was banking on no one being able to beat a J. Now for AA or KK that turn card changes things.

Think about it, say in this hand ur the CO and you have TT, u bet turn and you get check-raised, you are going to lay it down probably. Now switch your cards to AA or KK and we don't want to lay it down. Any sense?

SGS

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CO has AA/KK. CO bets turn. SGS calls. Fish c/r. Wow that's super strong from the fish. I guess you can fold, unless you have boat outs. CO loses one BB on turn/river combined.

CO has AA/KK. CO bets turn. SGS c/r. SGS's hand makes no sense. Fish folds. CO doesn't fold becuase SGS's hand makes zero sense. CO probably wins more than he would have if he checked behind like a weak tightie who thought more about OMG THE J PAIRED instead of trying to read likely hand ranges.

CO has AA/KK. CO bets turn. SGS calls. Fish calls. CO wins two extra BB.

I think TT is less likely to bet here. It's obvious you most likely have a scared QQ or KK or maybe AdKx type hand. AA is a really good hand here. I don't know why AA wouldn't bet. Really, CO, if he has AA, only has to worry about fish at this point because its pretty obvious what SGS has. This is not a way ahead way behind situation.

StellarWind · #5 02-23-2006, 02:18 PM

Dayninja, welcome to 2+2. I've played you many times and always assumed you must be one of our regular posters.

Reading this thread makes it obvious that this is a bad fold. The type of arguments being made are simply not acceptable at 13-1. It's obvious that we are nowhere near that certain about who has what.

Many posters in this thread seem not to appreciate how much weakness Hero has shown by checking the river after the turn debacle. MP2 has been invited by both opponents to bet anything he can find. CO has written us out of his playbook. He probably thinks we have AK but he doesn't expect us to overcall the river so it really doesn't matter.

Dan BRIGHT · #6 02-23-2006, 02:34 PM

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Dayninja, welcome to 2+2. I've played you many times and always assumed you must be one of our regular posters.

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He's raising for a freeshowdown :P :P :P

Bill King · #7 02-23-2006, 10:41 AM

who caps the preflop action with a solo J? most likely you'll need JJ to do that preflop so hes essentially puting the option of quads as a reason to check the turn? im not so sure about that. i think you missed bets here on the turn to be honest.

Dazarath · #8 02-23-2006, 10:50 AM

The flop and turn play could be AdKd, but I doubt he calls that river with A-high when there's a preflop capper left to act behind him.

Bill King · #9 02-23-2006, 10:56 AM

true.. the turn check i would think would be a good spot to bet a J though, as it improves anybody with a pair, like QQ.

when i originally read it i figured him for KK, which would make sense because he would probably raise on the river if he had AA, he is still semi-afraid of hero having AA probably.

SGS · #10 02-23-2006, 05:37 PM

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The flop and turn play could be AdKd, but I doubt he calls that river with A-high when there's a preflop capper left to act behind him.

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I agree with this. This coupled with the fact I thought there was about 0% chance the CO would 3-bet TT on the flop led me to my fold.

SGS