$60 home game

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #1 04-17-2007, 12:30 PM

So I played poker with a bunch of friends on Sat night. We had two 2-table tourneys w/ 16-18 guys, then most people went home, but 6 of us would play a 3rd game, $60 buy-in, 1st = $240, 2nd = $120. I play with thses guys a lot and they know I am TAG.

First hand, UTG, blinds 25/50 (4000 chips to start with) dealt KK I make it t150, get a call from a weaker player, but a stronger player makes it t650. I immediately put him on QQ-AA b/c I doubt he would raise me with any other holding (possibly AK, JJ, but more likely to call with these hands IMO).

So now what? If I call, I have 1/4 of my stack in, and any flop w/o an A I am likely all-in post flop, w/ an ace I could fold the better hand. I decide I won't be able to play post flop optimally. So I need to call, shove or fold preflop.

If my range is correct shoving and getting called is break-even (win QQ, tie KK lose vs AA). So since there is no +EV here, and I only lost t150, maybe a fold is best?

What should I do?

Landlord79 · #2 04-17-2007, 12:36 PM

Blow it up! If he knows you're TAG he also thinks you can lay down a hand. If he's got AA TL.

Nikoms · #3 04-17-2007, 01:13 PM

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Blow it up! If he knows you're TAG he also [s]thinks[/s] knowsyou can lay down a hand. If he's got AA TL.

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Also if he's repopping with AK, AQ, QQ or JJ you're a huge favorite. The ONLY hand you're a dog to is AA - and the chance that he's holding that is <1% (at least, mathmatically).

He knows, that you know, that he would only re-pop with the hands you're putting him on - i.e. he could be doing this with air or at least a hand you have beat, knowing that as soon as you re-raise, he folds or he calls and bets an A-high flop.

Personally, I shove - if he calls with AA - you've got a great story.

Incidentally - I bet he folds his bluff (unless, of course, he has AA)

Strickly Bidness · #4 04-17-2007, 01:19 PM

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Blow it up! If he knows you're TAG he also [s]thinks[/s] knowsyou can lay down a hand. If he's got AA TL.

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Also if he's repopping with AK, AQ, QQ or JJ you're a huge favorite. The ONLY hand you're a dog to is AA - and the chance that he's holding that is <1% (at least, mathmatically).

He knows, that you know, that he would only re-pop with the hands you're putting him on - i.e. he could be doing this with air or at least a hand you have beat, knowing that as soon as you re-raise, he folds or he calls and bets an A-high flop.

Personally, I shove - if he calls with AA - you've got a great story.

Incidentally - I bet he folds his bluff (unless, of course, he has AA)

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The chance that he has AA is much much greater than 1% given his action. You must update your prior when he raises like this. OP only has 150 invested so its not CLEARLY a push when 9-handed. I think at 6-handed very few people can fold this.

Nikoms · #5 04-17-2007, 02:02 PM

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Blow it up! If he knows you're TAG he also [s]thinks[/s] knowsyou can lay down a hand. If he's got AA TL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also if he's repopping with AK, AQ, QQ or JJ you're a huge favorite. The ONLY hand you're a dog to is AA - and the chance that he's holding that is <1% (at least, mathmatically).

He knows, that you know, that he would only re-pop with the hands you're putting him on - i.e. he could be doing this with air or at least a hand you have beat, knowing that as soon as you re-raise, he folds or he calls and bets an A-high flop.

Personally, I shove - if he calls with AA - you've got a great story.

Incidentally - I bet he folds his bluff (unless, of course, he has AA)

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The chance that he has AA is much much greater than 1% given his action. You must update your prior when he raises like this. OP only has 150 invested so its not CLEARLY a push when 9-handed. I think at 6-handed very few people can fold this.

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I agree - and never said "CLEARLY a push" - and it's NOT 9 handed, it's 6.

Yes, he could call, but if the flop hits A high what do you do? What do you do if it doesn't? I think villain is usuing our style and reads against us. Some have said that LHE is a card game with betting and NL Hold 'Em is a betting game that happens to use cards - I think this is what's happening in this case.

Ironically, if he DOES have JJ-AA, seing the flop is somewhat useless (except of course, if it comes down Kxx). As he's betting the flop hard with any of the above - and possibly making a c-bet with AK.

My point is, IF the ultra-tight range that the OP puts him on is true, the "coin flip" has already occurred - he's either losing his stack against AA, chopping with KK, or doubling up through QQ. I would prefer to take the guess work post-flop so that if he's holding AKs or JJ, we get his money now - while we're the favorite, instead of having him catch an A or have him flopping trips if he has a weaker PP. Get your money in while you're ahead. %'s would dictate (even with his action - to a point) that you've got the best hand now. I think if you fold KK here, you're a folding a better hand 85%+ of the time.

Strickly Bidness · #6 04-17-2007, 01:05 PM

i guess I'd jam here because it is 6-handed. If it were 9-handed then I'd fold.....MAYBE.

Slim Pickens · #7 04-17-2007, 01:30 PM

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i guess I'd jam here because it is 6-handed. If it were 9-handed then I'd fold.....MAYBE.

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Why would you play it differently 6-handed versus 9-handed if you're going to put him on the same re-raising range in both cases?

Strickly Bidness · #8 04-17-2007, 01:35 PM

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i guess I'd jam here because it is 6-handed. If it were 9-handed then I'd fold.....MAYBE.

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Why would you play it differently 6-handed versus 9-handed if you're going to put him on the same re-raising range in both cases?

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Because 6-handed its much less likely that you are up against AA. I would not put him on the same re-raising range in both cases. People raise much lighter short-handed, as I'm sure you know.

Slim Pickens · #9 04-17-2007, 01:49 PM

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i guess I'd jam here because it is 6-handed. If it were 9-handed then I'd fold.....MAYBE.

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Why would you play it differently 6-handed versus 9-handed if you're going to put him on the same re-raising range in both cases?

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Because 6-handed its much less likely that you are up against AA. I would not put him on the same re-raising range in both cases. People raise much lighter short-handed, as I'm sure you know.

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Would you agree with putting him on a 3-betting range of QQ+ 9-handed and JJ+,AK 6-handed? I thought I'd remembered you saying something about the ranges being the same but apparently I just made that up myself.

Strickly Bidness · #10 04-17-2007, 01:55 PM

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i guess I'd jam here because it is 6-handed. If it were 9-handed then I'd fold.....MAYBE.

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Why would you play it differently 6-handed versus 9-handed if you're going to put him on the same re-raising range in both cases?

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Because 6-handed its much less likely that you are up against AA. I would not put him on the same re-raising range in both cases. People raise much lighter short-handed, as I'm sure you know.

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Would you agree with putting him on a 3-betting range of QQ+ 9-handed and JJ+,AK 6-handed? I thought I'd remembered you saying something about the ranges being the same but apparently I just made that up myself.

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nah i dont remember saying ranges are the same. I really don't know villain so some of this is just speculation on the actual ranges. We never even got villains actual position did we? I'd say that TT+, AK is reasonable for what I understand of villain 6-handed. 9-handed I'd say QQ+ and maybe AKs but again I'd have to know villain well. Also the AK hands will have to be downweighted as we hold two kings.