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#1
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Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
Why do Stars allow the use of real-time ICM calculators in SNGs, yet are so against data-mining? There has already been a tool around for quite a while that does this and now an even more advanced tool has been created (see this thread) and I can only foresee them getting better and better in the future.
It's one thing to say that "they make the rules" and you have to follow them, but who is deciding upon these rules in the first place? I don't play at Stars, but I'd like to know once and for all their policy on things like this: Q) If I create a poker tool which tells me information (with a high degree of accuracy) such as "The EV of pressing call is $2.31 and the EV of pressing raise is $4.28", am I allowed to use this on Stars so long as I press the buttons it tells me too? If the answer is yes, then I'm just glad I don't play at Stars and if the answer if no, then why are real-time ICM calculators allowed? Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] |
#2
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
Why do Stars allow the use of real-time ICM calculators in SNGs, yet are so against data-mining? There has already been a tool around for quite a while that does this and now an even more advanced tool has been created (see this thread) and I can only foresee them getting better and better in the future. It's one thing to say that "they make the rules" and you have to follow them, but who is deciding upon these rules in the first place? I don't play at Stars, but I'd like to know once and for all their policy on things like this: Q) If I create a poker tool which tells me information (with a high degree of accuracy) such as "The EV of pressing call is $2.31 and the EV of pressing raise is $4.28", am I allowed to use this on Stars so long as I press the buttons it tells me too? If the answer is yes, then I'm just glad I don't play at Stars and if the answer if no, then why are real-time ICM calculators allowed? Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I believe they are allowed because you still have to enter hand ranges. |
#3
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
100% agree that it should be BANNED.
Any program that makes decisions; whether automated or via user input should not be allowed... |
#4
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
100% agree that it should be BANNED. Any program that makes decisions; whether automated or via user input should not be allowed... [/ QUOTE ] |
#5
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
These programs give their users an unfair advantage and thus should be banned. A bot that makes decitions and a program that tells you wich buttons to press real time are virtually the same thing.
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#6
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
A bot that makes decitions and a program that tells you wich buttons to press real time are virtually the same thing. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. A bot can play 1,234 tables at the same time while you're sleeping, working or having a candle light dinner. It's not a tool to help you play better - it's a malicious piece of software deviced to releave huge amounts of poker players of fractions of a percent of their EV - pretty much like the malicious piece of software employed some years ago by un-scrupulous arbitrage bank employees to siphon fractions of pennies from international financial transactions into their own accounts, building a wast forture in little time because of the enormous amount of transactions. A tool that helps you play better is a tool and not a bot, whether it's a pen and paper, a spreadsheet, SNGPT or what have you - because in the end it's not the machine player - you're the one that playing. |
#7
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A bot that makes decitions and a program that tells you wich buttons to press real time are virtually the same thing. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. A bot can play 1,234 tables at the same time while you're sleeping, working or having a candle light dinner. It's not a tool to help you play better - it's a malicious piece of software deviced to releave huge amounts of poker players of fractions of a percent of their EV - pretty much like the malicious piece of software employed some years ago by un-scrupulous arbitrage bank employees to siphon fractions of pennies from international financial transactions into their own accounts, building a wast forture in little time because of the enormous amount of transactions. A tool that helps you play better is a tool and not a bot, whether it's a pen and paper, a spreadsheet, SNGPT or what have you - because in the end it's not the machine player - you're the one that playing. [/ QUOTE ] What kind of software do you think a bot would use? They are the same thing, wether you are at the computer or not, the decisions are being made for you. If a program tells someone exactly what move is the best EV play, I could care less if the person is there to actually click the button or not. I don't like either situation but they are the same. |
#8
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A bot that makes decitions and a program that tells you wich buttons to press real time are virtually the same thing. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. A bot can play 1,234 tables at the same time while you're sleeping, working or having a candle light dinner. It's not a tool to help you play better - it's a malicious piece of software deviced to releave huge amounts of poker players of fractions of a percent of their EV [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. A bot can play 4-8 tables, as any other player. Anything beyond that is called multi-accounting. It also does not provide you with any unfair advantage, from game theory standpoint (like other tools e.g. poker edge, does). |
#9
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 100% agree that it should be BANNED. Any program that makes decisions; whether automated or via user input should not be allowed... [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] so what about pokerstove or a pen & paper? what about a reference table you made and put into excel that allows real time queries? |
#10
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 100% agree that it should be BANNED. Any program that makes decisions; whether automated or via user input should not be allowed... [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] so what about pokerstove or a pen & paper? what about a reference table you made and put into excel that allows real time queries? [/ QUOTE ] I think what he meant to say was: "Any program that makes decisions; whether automated or via user input should not be allowed while you're playing... ". It seems amazing to me that there are so few people are outwardly against this type of application, yet so many people are against bots. The threatening part of a bot is not the fact that it presses the buttons for you, it is the fact that it makes automated decisions. If a player was using an "auto-folder" with some scripted rule-based system then this would be treated very seriously by the sites; yet if the player uses an application that takes away all of the required decision making, but still presses the buttons himself it seems that nobody cares... I'm particularly disappointed with Stars, as they seem to actively endorse using this type of software. It's one thing to just ignore it until it becomes a threat (aka Party), but it's another thing completely to actually endorse it's use. Their Prohibited Software FAQ clearly lists "Sit and Go End Game Tools" in the list of allowed software, and then goes on to say "Any program that plays without human intervention (a "bot") or reduces the requirement of a human playing. For instance, an "auto-folder" is prohibited.". I think if they thought about their own rules more clearly, then "reduces the requirement of a human playing." could also include being told the EV of pressing each button... I doubt my post will actually do any good, as I think the sites are only really worried about the players getting scared off. I'm quite sure they would be just as happy hosting a site full of automated bots, so long as they get their rake. I strongly believe that the rules they make are only intended to make the players feel the sites are safer and have absolutely nothing to do with what is actually ethically right or wrong. Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] |
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