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#1
06-20-2006, 01:19 PM
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What is the goal of education?
As it stands, we spend five figures a year for every child to go to school for seven hours a day, 180 days a year, for twelve years straight. The children obviously do not enjoy this; school is very stressful, and given the choice any kid would prefer to play hooky and have the day off. Public schooling does not prepare children for any career. A literate person with an easily-acquired GED has the same job opportunities as someone who went through twelve years of high school (and almost as many as someone with a BA).
What exactly is the goal of education? Basic literacy and math skills? Would that mean that if someone can demonstrate that he has a functional vocabulary and the requisite math and logic skills needed to make a living, that his objective in schooling should be considered fulfilled and that he shouldn't have to go through anymore? Is it social skills? Wouldn't it be better to just let kids hang out together for a couple hours a day rather than having them all sit in desks telling them to shut up when they interact? Do the foreign language, science, history and literature programs actually accomplish anything, considering that the vast majority of the subject material has nothing to do with the student's career or interests, and they just forget it anyway? Is there any evidence that geometry and calculus, which are taught through the memorization of rote formulas, actually stimulate any kind of intellectual growth? Could the same not be fostered through other, more fun means like logic puzzles and strategy games? What is the goal of education? 
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#2
06-20-2006, 01:42 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
As it stands, we spend five figures a year for every child to go to school for seven hours a day, 180 days a year, for twelve years straight. <font color="red">more like high 4 figures, but no big deal </font> The children obviously do not enjoy this; school is very stressful, and given the choice any kid would prefer to play hooky and have the day off. <font color="red"> Id prefer to play poker or listen to music all day but nobody wants to pay me the same salary that my education has prepared me to make for those endeavors </font> Public schooling does not prepare children for any career. <font color="red"> if you mean it doesnt prepare them for a specific career you are correct, if you really mean "any" career I disagree. </font> A literate person with an easily-acquired GED has the same job opportunities as someone who went through twelve years of high school (and almost as many as someone with a BA). <font color="red">You apparently do know many people with a GED. A GED is still viewed as the last resort of drop-outs and from two equally qualified candidates the one with a GED will lose 90% of the time. </font> What exactly is the goal of education? <font color="red"> There are multiple goals of education. The most important ones imo are to teach how to use resources to learn more, and how to "think". There is also an important biological function to education...the brain doesnt develop as well without the stimulation of learning. </font> Basic literacy and math skills? Would that mean that if someone can demonstrate that he has a functional vocabulary and the requisite math and logic skills needed to make a living, that his objective in schooling should be considered fulfilled and that he shouldn't have to go through anymore? <font color="red"> as you have already pointed out, he doesnt, there are home schooling and GED alternatives, or direct entry into college without a HS diploma </font> Is it social skills? Wouldn't it be better to just let kids hang out together for a couple hours a day rather than having them all sit in desks telling them to shut up when they interact? <font color="red"> there is more to social skills than play. discipline, empathy and respect for the goals are promoted by structure that cant be readily learned in unsupervised play time </font> Do the foreign language, science, history and literature programs actually accomplish anything, considering that the vast majority of the subject material has nothing to do with the student's career or interests, and they just forget it anyway? <font color="red">how do you think someone finds their career interests without exposure to mutliple disciplines? </font> Is there any evidence that geometry and calculus, which are taught through the memorization of rote formulas, actually stimulate any kind of intellectual growth? <font color="red"> yes, I believe there are studies that left brain development is stimulated by education in the hard sciencies. Rote memorization is only the first step in learning the hard sciences, but for some its as far as they can get. For others who have the interest to develop a deeper understanding those opportunities are generally available. It is nearly impossible to go from no knowledge to "understanding" while bypassing memorization and problem solving. </font> Could the same not be fostered through other, more fun means like logic puzzles and strategy games? <font color="red"> the same would not be fostered, no, though logic and strategy games are also valid elements of education. It is only anecdotal evidence of course, but after observing several dozen children from birth to college, those who were stimulated in early childhood by the puzzles in Highlights for Children wound up in better academic standing than those who werent...and not only in left brain endeavors. </font> What is the goal of education? [/ QUOTE ]
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#4
06-20-2006, 05:03 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
Do you not understand how difficult it is to read your responses? Can you not see how other posters respond in neat ordlerly and readable fashion? [/ QUOTE ] So dont read them, your substantive replies are rare enough it would be no great loss.
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#5
06-20-2006, 07:13 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Do you not understand how difficult it is to read your responses? Can you not see how other posters respond in neat ordlerly and readable fashion? [/ QUOTE ] So dont read them, your substantive replies are rare enough it would be no great loss. [/ QUOTE ] You should learn to to use the quote function properly. It's not that hard and some of us may wish to read your responses without the headache of trying to decipher it. It's also easier for people to respond to you and easier for everyone else to follow who's saying what. It'll be apprecieated.
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#6
06-20-2006, 10:15 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
school is very stressful, and given the choice any kid would prefer to play hooky and have the day off. <font color="red"> Id prefer to play poker or listen to music all day but nobody wants to pay me the same salary that my education has prepared me to make for those endeavors </font> [/ QUOTE ] You get rewarded (read: paid) for your work. Students don't. They are trained to think of good grades as rewards (you can condition quite a few things to be rewarding), but you can't eat, drink, smoke, or pay your bills with grades. [ QUOTE ] Public schooling does not prepare children for any career. <font color="red"> if you mean it doesnt prepare them for a specific career you are correct, if you really mean "any" career I disagree. </font> [/ QUOTE ] Please explain how it prepares kids for jobs. Any jobs. [ QUOTE ] A GED is still viewed as the last resort of drop-outs and from two equally qualified candidates the one with a GED will lose 90% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] No, the one who the boss thinks can do a better job will get the job. [ QUOTE ] There are multiple goals of education. The most important ones imo are to teach how to use resources to learn more, and how to "think". There is also an important biological function to education...the brain doesnt develop as well without the stimulation of learning. [/ QUOTE ] All experiences, arguably, involve learning to some degree. The question is, how effective is the learning material? I agree that teaching kids how to think is a good thing, but that is never the focus of a school curriculum. Schools teach kids what to think. Consequently, their education results in nothing more than studying the night before to pass a test on something they don't care about the next day, and then forgetting it afterward when the usefulness of the knowledge has, in fact, expired. That is not useful. [ QUOTE ] how do you think someone finds their career interests without exposure to mutliple disciplines? [/ QUOTE ] Non-sequitur. It is completely possible to develop an interest in something without being forced to study it. [ QUOTE ] yes, I believe there are studies that left brain development is stimulated by education in the hard sciencies. Rote memorization is only the first step in learning the hard sciences, but for some its as far as they can get. [/ QUOTE ] I'm talking about K-12 here. No one actually gets into the interesting aspects of science until college. K-12 is all rote memorization about a panoply of garbage that no one cares about.
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#7
06-20-2006, 10:32 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
You must have been unfortunate to attend some very poor schools because virtually every response of yours is wrong. [ QUOTE ]
Please explain how it prepares kids for jobs. Any jobs. [/ QUOTE ] by giving them the tools to learn whatever skills are eventually needed. [ QUOTE ] No, the one who the boss thinks can do a better job will get the job. [/ QUOTE ] I stipulated they are equally qualified. Reading comprehension problem? [ QUOTE ] All experiences, arguably, involve learning to some degree. The question is, how effective is the learning material? I agree that teaching kids how to think is a good thing, but that is never the focus of a school curriculum. Schools teach kids what to think. Consequently, their education results in nothing more than studying the night before to pass a test on something they don't care about the next day, and then forgetting it afterward when the usefulness of the knowledge has, in fact, expired. That is not useful. [/ QUOTE ] As I said, its unfortunate that you went to some poor schools. That is not the focus of all of them, and certainly not the focus of the schools I went to or my son (all public schools). [ QUOTE ] Non-sequitur. It is completely possible to develop an interest in something without being forced to study it. [/ QUOTE ] Anythings possible. Exposure makes it far more likely. [ QUOTE ] I'm talking about K-12 here. No one actually gets into the interesting aspects of science until college. K-12 is all rote memorization about a panoply of garbage that no one cares about. [/ QUOTE ] Again i apologize for your experiences but this statement is asinine and patently false. I had AP credit in three courses. The material I studied in high school was equivalent to or more advanced than the college courses they replaced.
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#10
06-20-2006, 10:43 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
You must have been unfortunate to attend some very poor schools because virtually every response of yours is wrong. [/ QUOTE ] K-8 went to the best public school in the county, went through the "gifted kids" program, and went to private schools after that. [ QUOTE ] by giving them the tools to learn whatever skills are eventually needed. [/ QUOTE ] If this were true, schools would focus on learning techniques rather than learning material. In fact, if they actually taught learning techniques well, they wouldn't need to use rigid curriculums. [ QUOTE ] I stipulated they are equally qualified. Reading comprehension problem? [/ QUOTE ] You stipulated something that cannot happen. The mere fact that the potential employees are different in personality will cause the interviewer to have preference. [ QUOTE ] As I said, its unfortunate that you went to some poor schools. [/ QUOTE ] Ah, condescent as an argument. I'm finished with you, right after I returned the favor. [ QUOTE ] The material I studied in high school was equivalent to or more advanced than the college courses they replaced. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry that you went to such a poor college.
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