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#1
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20/40 turn decision with top pair
20/40 live. Most of the table is loose weak, CO is a little loose and a little tricky but nothing special. In a previous hand against him where I raised pre flop and on the flop he then donked a non scary turn with middle pair and no other draw.
I'm the BB with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], three limpers, SB calls, I check. How often should I raise this preflop? Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] SB checks, I bet, 2 calls, CO raises, Sb folds, I 3-bet, only CO calls. Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I bet, CO raises, I... |
#2
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
I play 9/18 & 10/20 live.
Getting 4:1 on a raise, I would probably do so about half the time. Now this is just my style, but if I checked from the BB pre-flop, I almost always go for the flop check-raise. Betting isn't bad, but with a J kicker, I want some definition to the hand. Remember, you're out of position. Now with all of those players pre-flop, you can't watch everyone. But after the flop raise, my eyes would be glued on the CO. If he gives me any kind of hyper agression, or a bluffing tell I raise back. If I see calm agression, or an "I like the turn tell" I fold. Without more information, I'm probably turning into a calling station for the rest of the hand and pay for future information. |
#3
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
[ QUOTE ]
If he gives me any kind of hyper agression, or a bluffing tell I raise back. If I see calm agression, or an "I like the turn tell" I fold. [/ QUOTE ] can you please teach me this? |
#4
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If he gives me any kind of hyper agression, or a bluffing tell I raise back. If I see calm agression, or an "I like the turn tell" I fold. [/ QUOTE ] can you please teach me this? [/ QUOTE ] Pay attetion to betting patterns and also, read Mike Caro's Book of Tells. In general, fast betting where the chips are thrown in the pot is weak and slower betting with chips placed in the pot is srtong. Also, don't discount your general life experience. Many players are happy when the have a good hand and nervous when they don't - we can all see that. Haven't you ever seen someone join the game and known they were a fish before seeing one hand played? Be warned however, most experienced players control many of these tells and will sometimes reverse, or mask them. So, get a general read on the knowledge/skill level first. |
#5
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
What are you beating on the turn?
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#6
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
[ QUOTE ]
What are you beating on the turn? [/ QUOTE ] Agreed, standard turn fold with no reads IMO. |
#7
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
Hmmm, I put some more thought into this and I think we can call and either c/c or lead a safe river since we don't really have no reads - we've seen him lead middle pair on the turn and while raising is different I think QJ is good here often enough to make a call.
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#8
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
Donking middle pair against a preflop raise / flop continuation bet is an entirely different situation.
Hero's hand is much more clearly defined this time, and the villain is still saying he can beat top pair. Unless you have reason to believe otherwise, you have to give villain credit for at least 2-pair here. Oh yea, I would normally raise preflop. |
#9
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
I know it's differentI said so in my post, but don't you think the fact that he was able to lead middle pair there is enough to call here? We don't have to be good very often and we don't have to call the river.
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#10
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Re: 20/40 turn decision with top pair
[ QUOTE ]
What are you beating on the turn? [/ QUOTE ] QxTs and Qx9x perhaps Realistically, the best case scenario is we have 8 outs against his 78 etc. The worst case scenario we are dead already. It's a pretty standard fold unless he is a maniac. |
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