Why do we steal with Axs?

[VegasRunner]

I'm a TAG live player. I'll start playing online more soon, but for now, I don't have pokertracker analyzing my every move, so this is a pretty basic preflop question?

In every poker book, I've ever read, I've been encouraged to raise preflop in MP or LP with a weak suited ace preflop if I'm the first to open the pot. I've done this blindly for years, but I'm starting to wonder why I'm doing it.

Heads up, a suited ace is about 3% better than an unsuited ace againist a random hand. If it's +EV to make this raise with Axs, then shouldn't it be almost as good a play with Axo?

Is the 5.77% of the time when we actually make the flush (thank you Mike Caro) really that big a difference? If not, then why aren't we making the same steal with Axo?

[notfreemoney]

from the books that i have read it makes a pretty big difference because of the flush draw possibilities. That way you can semi-bluff more and get monies when it hits.

[VegasRunner]

Okay, if it's the flush draw possibility, you'll flop two or more of your suit 11.79% of time. That still seems small to me.

By comparision, you are as likely to flop a set with a pocket pair as you are to flop a flush draw with two suited cards.

[swainy]

we raise PP's so that if we flop a set we can get all the money in more easily.... is it ~13% for flopping a set with a PP? thats not too far off the chance of flopping a FD with Axs.... could one suggest that the idea is the similar?

[EN09]

[ QUOTE ]
we raise PP's so that if we flop a set we can get all the money in more easily.... is it ~13% for flopping a set with a PP? thats not too far off the chance of flopping a FD with Axs.... could one suggest that the idea is the similar?

[/ QUOTE ]

given the percentages - and i'm no math major - flopping a set is more likely to stack a player than flopping the fd. with the set you have the made hand to go to war with. a fd??? you still have to hit. i'd rather shove with the set than a draw, though i've done both.

EN

[ActionStan]

With Axs, when you flop a pair and a draw or even just the nut draw, you can play for stacks. You aren't playing Axs for high card values, you are playing it to draw to the nuts. So, you put a little in, steal a little and release when the going gets rough. You hardly ever play for high card values and then only in small pots. With Axo, you rarely make those sorts of draws.

In my mind, A(2-5)s play better than A(6-9)s as you can also flop a wheel draw which is another big pot hand.

The only big pot hand you can make with Axo is 2 pair. Trip A's is a total trap if you can't get away from it.

[VegasRunner]

[ QUOTE ]
With Axs, when you flop a pair and a draw or even just the nut draw, you can play for stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you're opponent is literally blind, do you really want to play for stacks with just a flush draw?

I agree that you can threaten to play for stacks with a flush draw, because of folding equity, but imo, if he calls your big raise when all you have is a flush draw, that's really, really bad news. Yes, you have outs, but you are a dog.

I agree that we can create the impression that we want to play for stacks, but in reality, we don't really want to.

This is the major difference between the flush draw and the set. With the set, their call is +EV for us. With a simple flush draw, we are -EV.

[ActionStan]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree that we can create the impression that we want to play for stacks, but in reality, we don't really want to.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's true. Most hands on the flop are one pair hands. We want those one pair hands to fold for the most part. If we happen to get both stacks in and are behind, we still have good equity.

[ QUOTE ]

This is the major difference between the flush draw and the set. With the set, their call is +EV for us. With a simple flush draw, we are -EV.


[/ QUOTE ]
But you have to make a set before it has value. I think that's a key difference. That just isn't the case with any kind of big draw.

Now, if you are in a loose game where no one can lay down a hand, playing it fast loses some value. But, pots often play multiway, so you're draws are still good earners when they come in.

[SimaoMacaco]

I just tried to clean NotFreeMonies bug off the screen.... levelled.

[futuredoc85]

preflop equity in once-raised pots is pretty meaningless in NL in this context