|
|
|
|
#2
11-22-2007, 01:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: 30/60 turn spot
I like the 3 bet. It will likely get you a free showdown if you don't improve and an extra bet if you do. You have 12 outs to nuts + 6 outs to top pair which may be good and you have enough hand to showdown u/i. Assuming he just calls the 3 bet, I check behing the river u/i and bet if I hit at least a pair.
|
|
#3
11-22-2007, 01:56 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c. He c/c. Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r. I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand? [/ QUOTE ] why did you bet the turn? 3betting is amazingly bad.
|
|
#4
11-22-2007, 05:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c. He c/c. Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r. I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand? [/ QUOTE ] why did you bet the turn? 3betting is amazingly bad. [/ QUOTE ] Let me explain. When he calls the flop on this board, he either has (a) a pair (b) a club draw (c) a gutshot or (d) nothing. When the turn card comes, he still has all of these things except for (c). It is quite possible that he is bluffing with something dumb like QT on this turn, but if he is, you have the best hand and have him drawing near dead. Let him barrel away. The only thing that happens when you 3bet the turn is that he either folds a worse hand or caps it with a straight. This is basically what happens when you bet, too. Check and take the free card.
|
|
#6
11-22-2007, 07:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I raise AcTc in HJ, HU w/ bb, flop 96c5c. He c/c. Turn is offsuit 7. (9657 board). He c/r. I b/3bet. spew? plan for hand? [/ QUOTE ] why did you bet the turn? 3betting is amazingly bad. [/ QUOTE ] Let me explain. When he calls the flop on this board, he either has (a) a pair (b) a club draw (c) a gutshot or (d) nothing. When the turn card comes, he still has all of these things except for (c). It is quite possible that he is bluffing with something dumb like QT on this turn, but if he is, you have the best hand and have him drawing near dead. Let him barrel away. The only thing that happens when you 3bet the turn is that he either folds a worse hand or caps it with a straight. This is basically what happens when you bet, too. Check and take the free card. [/ QUOTE ] Without a specific read on the BB or the OP's table image, why can't we bet that turn? I don't think it's horrible. BB could be a loose player who holds some type of suited 7 in his hand and just paired up or if the OP has been playing fairly solid then a semi-bluff with around 7-12 outs isn't horrible, IMO. If BB does have a flush draw as you said, then it's a good turn bet. If the BB does have a pair, he either made two pair or is stuck with one pair on a scary board and he might smooth call or even fold. If BB hit his straight and raises, then Hero can simply call getting 6:1 with anywhere from 7-9 outs for the win, 0 or 3 for a chop. Plus a straight might pay him off if a club hits anyway. I think it just depends on the BB and Hero's image. 3-bet is amazingly bad though, as you said.
|
|
#8
11-22-2007, 09:48 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
But by checking the turn we lose value vs. b) and d) and when he donks the river do we call with A high? The 3 bet is obviously horrible but I bet the turn all day long w the nut draw 2 overs and gs. [/ QUOTE ] we don't lose value if he wouldn't have called the turn bet.
|
|
#9
11-23-2007, 12:24 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 30/60 turn spot
All--
I think that it's completely bonkers not to bet this turn. People call this flop with all sorts of stuff, including many no-pair hands, all of which you want to bet against on this turn. Even bad one-pair hands fold sometimes. And there's the obvious poker-101 reason that you only lose a fraction of a bet when you're called by a better hand. Even getting checkraised isn't terrible. Quick visualization thing: you don't know any hands, and you see a defense situation where the big blind check-calls a 965 twotone flop and then check-folds an offsuit seven turn. Are you very surprised to see the fold? If not, we should definitely definitely bet the turn. In short, it takes a heck of a read not to bet this turn. I agree that three-betting is pretty bad, but I can think of a few guys who manage to have checkraising ranges here that consist substantially of hands that fold to a third bet. (Seriously.) Anyway, I belive that checking behind here under anything near standard conditions is a big mistake. --Nate
|
|
#10
11-23-2007, 02:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: 30/60 turn spot
[ QUOTE ]
But by checking the turn we lose value vs. b) and d) and when he donks the river do we call with A high? The 3 bet is obviously horrible but I bet the turn all day long w the nut draw 2 overs and gs. [/ QUOTE ] which bet has more value for us: the bet that we place and gets called on the turn, or the bet that we put in on the river when we call after the turn checks through?
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
