The Mirror Test For Non Apes and Elephants

[David Sklansky]

I have read that only a few animals, great apes, dolphins, and recently one elephant, pass the mirror test. They are brought in front of a mirror, allowed to watch themselves for a while, taken away, have paint applied to their forehead, and brought back to the mirror.

Since only those animals sometimes wipe their foreheads, it is assumed that only those animals realize that they are looking at themselves. But I wonder if that is so. Might somewhat less intelligent animals like pigs, dogs, cats, birds, or sea lions also get it if they were helped a little. Given more time. Or better yet, helped by props. Suppose each time, or at least at the beginning, the dog was put in front of the mirror with you holding it? That should make it more obvious he is looking at himself. Has this been tried and failed? Just wondering.

[elrudo]

We need to know the definition of 'animal intelligence'.

Is there a good scale for measuring that ?

I suspect that horses and pigs would score very high on the 'animal intelligence test' as well, but both species dont have the anatomy to wipe their foreheads easily.

Where wiping their foreheads using instruments or props would require a higher level of intelligence than needed for the test.

Also, there might be some animals that look at themselves in the mirror ( in nature they might look at themselves when drinking water from a pool or something ) and wipe their foreheads, but score lower on the animal intelligence test.

Is there a 'better' test for animal intelligence ?

[David Sklansky]

You are changing the subject. I simply am wondering whether ther are other animals that, with some help, would get the concept that they are looking at themselves

[elrudo]

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You are changing the subject. I simply am wondering whether ther are other animals that, with some help, would get the concept that they are looking at themselves

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David, changing the subject is bad, but are you looking for yes/no, or other answers without arguments now ?

My money is on the pig.

[George Rice]

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Is there a 'better' test for animal intelligence ?

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I don't know about tests, but the story I told a couple of months ago demonstrates an animal using reasoning.

Sorry David, not on topic, but you may be getting there in future posts.

Cat Story

[A_C_Slater]

On a related note crows have been reported to be seen dropping walnuts onto highways. They wait for cars to run over the walnuts shell so that they can get to the nut inside.

[George Rice]

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On a related note crows have been reported to be seen dropping walnuts onto highways. They wait for cars to run over the walnuts shell so that they can get to the nut inside.

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Large birds typically drop their prey from high up to kill it. That, and the dropping of nuts, might be evidence of reasoning to some degree, or simple the results of many trials and errors, and very little reasoning.

Old cat had no practice.

[Cornell Fiji]

David,
The author of the elepant study emailed me the following response to your question. If you have any other questions on the subject please post them here and I will let him know. He is very amenable toward talking about this subject and would be happy to answer any further questions that you may have.

-Steve

Response form author of elephant study

David --

Thanks for your interest in mirror studies. It is imperative in these tests of mirror self-recognition that the animals spontaneously learn how to use the mirror (i.e., recognizing that the mirror reflection is self); "helping the animals along" could introduce a lot of confounds, including the well-known "Clever Hans" phenomenon, where a human might cue the animal unconsciously. I should note that many species, including monkeys, birds and probably dogs, can use mirrors to guide their behavior (e.g., find hidden food visible only in the mirror). Thus, they get the mirror to some extent but just don't understand their own reflections. It is this understanding that is so rare in the animal kingdom. Please let me know if I can help any further. Josh

[John Kilduff]

Good question/no idea;-) Coaching, experience, practice and "help" might help, but...

...it is also worth noting that dogs and cats often appear to not even notice their own reflections in a mirror. Try it a few times with a few cats and dogs when you get the chance, it should be interesting. Male birds, on the other hand, occasionally attack house windows (during mating season?) and seem to be fighting their own reflections. This is not to be confused with accidents where birds die after trying to fly through a window that they apparently did not see, thereby knocking themselves unconscious.

[PLOlover]

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it is also worth noting that dogs and cats often appear to not even notice their own reflections in a mirror

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It seems to me dogs and cats are intelligent enough, it is simply a hardware problem for them. That is to say the way their vision works and how they scan their environment and stuff like that.