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#1
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Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
I don't get it. I very very rarely use it. Most of the spots people suggest it in look really bad. I don't see AT ALL why you'd want to do it with small pairs.
Can you guys explain when it's a good idea and why? |
#2
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
The theory behind it is this- Say you have a decent hand out of the blinds and someone in lp makes a raise. Your stack is such that you are likely to have no FE preflop. Say you have 1800 and he opens to 900 at 150/3. He's pretty much never folding if you shove. But he might fold if you call and shove any flop.
The reason why it's done with pairs is that you're trying to fold out hands that will beat you on the turn and river. Here's an example. Button opens for 900 with KJ. You have 1700 in bb with 7s. You're likely ahead of his range and with the blinds and stacks the way they are, you pretty much have to play the hand. So you call. Let's say the flop is 952. Or A84 or 345. Or pretty much anything not containing a K or J. It's gonna be very tough for him to call your shove. By doing this, you prevent him from seeing his 6 outs twice on the turn and river. You can do this with any hand really, but it's most effective with smaller pairs IMO, because they are the hands that least want to see all 5 cards. If your hand is strong enough where you don't mind seeing all 5 cards, then obviously get the money in preflop. This is just another line to consider with marginal hands that come up at certain stack sizes. |
#3
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
[ QUOTE ]
The theory behind it is this- Say you have a decent hand out of the blinds and someone in lp makes a raise. Your stack is such that you are likely to have no FE preflop. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, maybe it never worked b/c I did not have a good hand... I just got to the point of desperation, maybe 3-5xbb, so I did SnG. Oh well, I used to do it way too much... I am def playing better now that I very rarely do it... |
#4
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
I never use it also but the idea is, when you have absolutly no FE preflop, to gain a smalish % of FE on the flop when villan has not hit.
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#5
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
I know what the idea behind it is. But if you have no FE, and your hand isn't strong enough to go ahead and shove preflop why pull a stop+go?
Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind. |
#6
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
[ QUOTE ]
I know what the idea behind it is. But if you have no FE, and your hand isn't strong enough to go ahead and shove preflop why pull a stop+go? Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind. [/ QUOTE ] but the chips you gain are big in number and very valuable. taking down a stop and go can often nearly double you up, and your forcing yourself into a situation where you now have FE and a chance to take down a raised pot without a showdown. again, not worth using it a lot in sngs cause its often not a good idea in many seemingly good spots but...yeah its basically like saying "i can flip PF for stacks or i can just rob his ass blind on the flop when this [censored] works" |
#7
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
[ QUOTE ] Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah...it's a sit n go. You should be doing exactly this about 200x/day. |
#8
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah...it's a sit n go. You should be doing exactly this about 200x/day. [/ QUOTE ] But.. you're letting him play well. He folds when he and calls when he should. Why is this a good thing for us? I guess you could change the example so that he is getting odds to draw to 6 outs, but you're probably getting called (correctly) then. |
#9
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah...it's a sit n go. You should be doing exactly this about 200x/day. [/ QUOTE ] But.. you're letting him play well. He folds when he and calls when he should. Why is this a good thing for us? I guess you could change the example so that he is getting odds to draw to 6 outs, but you're probably getting called (correctly) then. [/ QUOTE ] At this point, the odds don't matter. He can play perfectly but you still gain. Given the situation I posted, ANY course of action you can take to increase the chances of you winning the hand by even a few % is definitely worth it. |
#10
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Re: Please explain the stop-and-go to me.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Bones, in your example it would seem you're giving him the opportunity to make a correct fold, no? He gets to choose whether he wants to continue. You're just shoving it in blind. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah...it's a sit n go. You should be doing exactly this about 200x/day. [/ QUOTE ] But.. you're letting him play well. He folds when he and calls when he should. Why is this a good thing for us? I guess you could change the example so that he is getting odds to draw to 6 outs, but you're probably getting called (correctly) then. [/ QUOTE ] It doesn't matter if you are making him play correctly if you have no better option. Don't worry about what is correct for him. Worry about what is best for you. This usually means avoiding going broke, even if this costs you a little bit of chip EV. |
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