Playing 2/4... breaking even

[mikewpu04]

Hello all, great forums here. I've read a lot of great stuff here in the few days I've been browsing.

My question is about my results thus far. I have played about 15 live sessions at 2/4 limit (before that I always played home games). My results seem to level off a lot, and after those 15 sessions, I'm basically a break even player. Is this the very nature of limit? Especially at the lower levels where it is very hard to bluff and chase people away from pots, is this what beginning limit players can expect?

[xxGreat1xx]

I think you have to play a ton more hands to see whether you are a winning or losing or break even player. As for your questions I think that if you are a winning player you will win less money at limit. Why don't you just go play 1/2 NL and see how you do. I personally hate limit for the fact that it is hard to get someone out of the pot cause they always have insane odds to draw out on.

[fuzz66]

15 sessions is much too small a sample. also, at 2-4 the rake is very hard to overcome for small +EV or break even players, or for winning players for that matter.

[fuzz66]

mike,how long have you played and what have you studied?

[mikewpu04]

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mike,how long have you played and what have you studied?

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I have mainly focused on low-limit hold'em in live settings. I have played NLHE in the casino but that was when I was still just nervous being in the live poker table, and my results were sub-par I felt. So I decided to work on my limit game first.

I have played at home for a few years but not a casino until a few months ago.

[fuzz66]

1).2 books that are a must study- SMALL STAKES HOLDEM, WINNING BIG WITH EXPERT PLAY and THE THEORY OF POKER. get these books and study them, they will pay for themselves in no time.
2). post hands in the small stakes forum. get feedback, advice from the players there, also a must to improve your game.
3).deposit 50$ into an online poker account and play micros(.01-.02, .05-.10) these games are basically the equevilant of live 2-4 as far as the quality of players.playing micros online will give you a tremendous boost in experience as you will be able to play many more hands.
4).visit this website at least once a day, browse through it, get familiar with it, and study the posts of the more experienced posters here.

good luck and see you in the forums

[Harv72b]

What is the rake structure in the cardroom you play at? Many B&M 2/4 games are exceedingly difficult to beat simply because of the rake, and if that's the case here then you're doing quite well just to be breaking even. Although yes, 15 live sessions is a ludicrously small sample.

SSH is your limit hold'em Bible, especially for beating the typically loose/terrible opponents you'll encounter in these games. The small stakes limit forum here on 2+2 is also a great resource for improving your game.

[mikewpu04]

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What is the rake structure in the cardroom you play at? Many B&M 2/4 games are exceedingly difficult to beat simply because of the rake, and if that's the case here then you're doing quite well just to be breaking even. Although yes, 15 live sessions is a ludicrously small sample.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually play at the standard AC rake of 10% with a max of $4.

Thanks for your replies. Loose is the key word in these games, and it seems like if you have the cards, you win, if you don't, you don't win. Seems basic, but its annoying. Its more about betting the hands you have and how many people try to outdraw you. I had KK once to a flop of Kd8h2c...and I bet (a big $2) and, everyone (8 other players) called. People chased runner-runner of two clubs to outdraw me, and I feel like if I could've plopped down $25, no one would have chased.

The bigger Q is...since theres been so many times I want to steal a pot and can't with the size of the bet, is NL a better bet to learn and stay away from limit? (I've played NL twice and lost like $40).

[leatangclan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the rake structure in the cardroom you play at? Many B&M 2/4 games are exceedingly difficult to beat simply because of the rake, and if that's the case here then you're doing quite well just to be breaking even. Although yes, 15 live sessions is a ludicrously small sample.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually play at the standard AC rake of 10% with a max of $4.

Thanks for your replies. Loose is the key word in these games, and it seems like if you have the cards, you win, if you don't, you don't win. Seems basic, but its annoying. Its more about betting the hands you have and how many people try to outdraw you. I had KK once to a flop of Kd8h2c...and I bet (a big $2) and, everyone (8 other players) called. People chased runner-runner of two clubs to outdraw me, and I feel like if I could've plopped down $25, no one would have chased.

The bigger Q is...since theres been so many times I want to steal a pot and can't with the size of the bet, is NL a better bet to learn and stay away from limit? (I've played NL twice and lost like $40).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why they call it no foldem holdem. When I used to play 2/4 limit it's almost impossible to chase anyone out. It's basically a race.

You may want to consider as someone earlier suggested, make a small deposit and play some micro NL to get some experience. There are some pretty good games at $0.1/$0.25 NL. The max buy-in is $25 - less than one capped hand at 2/4. Good luck!

[pzhon]

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Loose is the key word in these games, and it seems like if you have the cards, you win, if you don't, you don't win.

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There is a lot more to low stakes poker than that. You get to choose which hands you are playing, and you often get to influence the size of the pot. If you are going to win 1/5 of the time, but you only have to put in 1/8 of the money, pump up the pot, as every extra dollar going in returns $1.60 on average. Low stakes limit is filled with opportunities like that, which are fantastic in comparison with getting back $1.01 in blackjack if you count cards really well.

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its annoying.


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It's quite profitable, if you know what you are doing. You can never sustain the type of win rate (at least before the rake) in tougher games that you can get in the lowest stakes live games available. If it's too frustrating for you to handle, quit poker now, because it will never get better. People will stop paying you off as much when your hand is good, and they will charge you more when you have the second best hand.

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I had KK once to a flop of Kd8h2c...and I bet (a big $2) and, everyone (8 other players) called. People chased runner-runner of two clubs to outdraw me, and I feel like if I could've plopped down $25, no one would have chased.

[/ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't want people to fold, unless you value winning pots more than money.

You don't deserve to win the ~$30 pot 100% of the time when you flop a monster like top set. In this type of game, you should win a $100 pot 80-90% of the time. If a sure $30 sounds better, you may want to look for another hobby.

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The bigger Q is...since theres been so many times I want to steal a pot and can't with the size of the bet, is NL a better bet to learn and stay away from limit? (I've played NL twice and lost like $40).

[/ QUOTE ]
No, that's really not a good reason to switch to NL. You are going to be just as frustrated or more when people don't respect your bluffs, or call without odds and win.