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View Poll Results: Favorite Member? | |||
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23 | 46.94% |
Plant |
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16 | 32.65% |
Bonham |
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10 | 20.41% |
Jones |
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0 | 0% |
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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Party Poker
Limit Omaha Ring game Limit: $15/$30 7 players Converter Villian in the SB in this hand is: VPIP: 33.62 Won$SD: 48.78 Pre-flop: (7 players) HERO is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 folds SB completes, HERO checks. Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2.47SB, 2 players) sB checks, HERO checks. Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (1.23BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, HERO calls. River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.23BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">HERO ????</font> Here's my thought process on the hand. He could obviously have any two cards, but so could I. He did not bet the flop, but neither did I. That may have given him an excuse to fire on the turn, hoping that I had nothing still and he could just take it down. Now, I'm not crazy about the turn, I pickup a weak pair plus the nut low draw. But there are flush and straight draws I don't have a piece of. Folding the turn is probably the right play most of the time, for let's forget about that for now. He bet the turn, I called with position. The river absolutely did not help me. But, did it really help him? If he had a hand on the flop that the King would have helped, wouldn't he have led out into me? I would think so. Perhaps he picked up a flush/low/straight draw on the turn and decided to fire at it, having outs on the river should I call. If that's the case, then perhaps I should raise him. Maybe he's only on a pair of Jacks and didn't bet the flop to see what I would do? So, forget about discussing my action on the turn. What do you do on this river? Just give up? Call and hope the 7's are good, or raise and try and take it away? |
#2
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fold/kick yourself in the nuts for not raising preflop
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#3
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[ QUOTE ]
fold/kick yourself in the nuts for not raising preflop [/ QUOTE ] Why would I raise this holding heads-up pre-flop? It's not overly strong. If the pot was multi-way, yeah, I'd have raised. But heads-up, my holding isn't very strong at all, so a raise is typically incorrect. |
#4
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<disclaimer> LL 6-max player </disclaimer>
He could be calling pf with (almost) any 4. IMO, with you having position throughout, and his stats not being all that great, a pfr + fcb will tell you pretty much all you need to know. You have more exp at this level than I do, so I'm wondering... Had you pfr'd + fcb, would he have bet into you on the turn? If not, wouldn't you be in the same position on the river with more information? I still think your 7's are toast, and could have taken a smaller pot earlier on. |
#5
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My holding of A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against the following hands:
6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have 56% equity) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I have 56.5% equity) Those are ideal situations where he has complete rubbish. Let's give him a semi-reasonable hand (especially considering all the folds around to us, it's not implausible that he also has an Ace in his hand) A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (now my equity is down to 46.4%) Hell, even if he has 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] only gives me a 4% equity advantage over him. The problem with my holding heads-up is that it's essentially a one-way hand most of the time, and rates to split most pots. Yes, I have a suited Ace, but I also have three diamonds, reducing my flush possibilities. I have straight possibilities, but all relatively low. I'd much rather dump the 7 in my hand and take a card 10 or higher, then I'm in much better shape on a number of flops. Still, given the action, you believe a fold on the river is best? Do you believe he actually has something here? He checked the flop, as did I. Then all of a sudden he leads the turn, which really couldn't have helped him much, unless it gave him a draw. And if it did give him a draw, the offsuit King on the river didn't complete that draw, so he'd be forced to bet with a whiffed draw, to try and take it down (especially since I haven't shown any strength in the hand up until that point) |
#6
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In my 6-max realm, the position/aggression factor plays well here.
IMO, in this type of blind battle, this hand has enough going for it to play it harder than the equity suggests. Pre-flop: (7 players) HERO is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 folds SB completes, HERO raises, SB calls. Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players) sB checks, HERO bets, SB calls. Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">SB checks</font>, HERO checks. River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">HERO ????</font> Now you're in the same spot. What do you think this time? You had 2 shots to take the pot, how many times would you have already won? I would also have a much easier time raising the river now (read/image dependant), but for me it's just $6 or $8, not the $60 for you. But you can always fall back on the 66% wife paycheck thingy... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to explore other options and let myself get critiqued in the process... |
#7
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[ QUOTE ]
My holding of A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against the following hands: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have 56% equity) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I have 56.5% equity) Those are ideal situations where he has complete rubbish. Let's give him a semi-reasonable hand.. [/ QUOTE ] It's not about actual equity, it's about momentum and position. Let's say you check your option.. What do you do when he bets the QJ2 flop with 6789? You have to fold. If you raise this preflop, he probably check-folds that flop instead of bluffing at you. |
#8
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re: the actual hand.. I would fold this. The pot is too small to try to bluff raise here and his hand could easily be what he's representing.
Also, why are you only posting VPIP and won@SD? That second stat is so useless.. what about PFR, AF and went to SD? |
#9
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[ QUOTE ]
re: the actual hand.. I would fold this. The pot is too small to try to bluff raise here and his hand could easily be what he's representing. Also, why are you only posting VPIP and won@SD? That second stat is so useless.. what about PFR, AF and went to SD? [/ QUOTE ] PFR: 6.9 AF: 0.64 Went To SD: 47.13 Also, you state that "his hand could be easily what he's representing" I disagree. If he hit the flop, he's likely to lead out and not let me draw to a low cheaply. The 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the turn now creates a new low and flush draw, but doesn't complete any draws from the flop. Now he's betting into me, why? Does he have a set of 7's? Unlikely, I have one 7 in my hand. Has he picked up a flush/low/straight draw? Possibly. Maybe he just figures he can take it down since I checked the flop and the pot is small. Whatever the case, I don't believe the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] put him ahead of me on the turn (i.e. if he was ahead of me, it was on the flop) The river King is a real brick, given the way Villian has played the hand. It doesn't mesh with any draws he'd be representing on that turn card, but he HAS to bet if he's missed any of his draws, and so the raise seemed the best move to make. |
#10
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Ok. I still think you screwed this hand up. Why not bet the flop? On the turn, he could have taken a stab with a broadway gutshot + low draw or double gutter like AT8 or just the ignorant end (9Txx).
Anyway, I think it's really silly that you're not raising preflop or betting when checked to, yet you're bluff raising the river. You declined reasonable aggression twice, then chose the most expensive and risky play to take down a small pot. And this is against a fairly passive and showdown-bound opponent. Congratulations, it worked. It still sucks. |
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