Please don't 86 the player who is making the game

DrewOnTilt · #1 03-18-2007, 10:24 AM

Borgata 40/80 game on Saturday. One loon of a guy was throwing a party and REALLY enjoying himself. He was the definition of someone with money to burn. He tipped the dealers in stacks of chips. He constantly tried to get people to agree to go allin with him (this is a LIMIT game, mind you), and was apparently always serious, as he actually did end up going allin several times with all manner of hands. In one hand where the maniac had folded preflop, there was a pair of 3s on the board, and he bet a player that was in the hand "$1000 if you show me a 3." Of course the player took the maniac up on the bet. The maniac parted ways with his thousand bucks and laughed his ass off about it.

He was drinking heavily and was really loud, but wasn't being rude or nasty - he was a happy, jovial drunk. I heard no one complain about him, as we all enjoyed having fun with him and spreading the money around, and the dealers all enjoyed getting big tips. Nonetheless, some manager decided that the guy was too loud/too drunk/whatever and made the call to 86 him. I don't know everything that was invovled in the decision-making process. I heard a rumor that the managers had told the guy no more booze, so he kept going out onto the main casino floor to get drinks. I don't know if this is true or not.

I know that the casino has to protect itself against liability from players who become extremely inebriated, but IMHO the managers made a bad call here. The maniac was drunk but didn't appear totally smashed. He was loud but was not making problems with anyone. He had money to burn and was enjoying burning it. There was a REASON that the wait list for the game was a mile deep. He was good for the game! In the blink of an eye - POOF! He was gone.

Bah. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong here, since businesses that serve alchohol can be held liable if a patron becomes too inebriated.

Mike Gallo · #2 03-18-2007, 11:19 AM

Tough decision.

If the maniac kept drinking after the floor told him to stop drinking and the maniac didnt, the Borgata sees a bigger picture than the poker game.

I side with management in this regard. They have to look out for their best interest.

*TT* · #3 03-18-2007, 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Bah. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong here, since businesses that serve alchohol can be held liable if a patron becomes too inebriated.

[/ QUOTE ]

They can also be held liable for their gambling losses. Not long ago The Wynn was sued by the family of an elderly man who spread around something like 1/2 million in a 24 hour spree there, Wynn had to reimburse the family and the staff all had to refund their tips.

bav · #4 03-18-2007, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They can also be held liable for their gambling losses. Not long ago The Wynn was sued by the family of an elderly man who spread around something like 1/2 million in a 24 hour spree there, Wynn had to reimburse the family and the staff all had to refund their tips.

[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't sound exactly accurate. Assuming it's the same story, this is the thing that supposedly pushed Wynn over the edge to forcing dealers to share their tokes with their bosses. During that spree the guy was using a line of credit, and he was toking HUGE amounts but was also winning a lot. But as usually happens, he didn't quit when he was ahead and ultimately finished the night well down. And then he and his family complained and insisted he had been taken advantage of by the greedy dealers who encouraged him to toke insane amounts and kept him gambling.

But Wynn was not FORCED to return anything. Wynn made the CHOICE to do this. But he couldn't force a return of the tokes--that would be theft. So he was ultra-PO'd that he had to make good on the toke money as well as on the losses the idiot suffered. He saw $50K or $100K or whatever it was in the toke boxes from that night, and felt like that was coming out of his pocket.

(more or less...I haven't gone digging for any original posts on this topic so this is my memory of the telling of those events.)

Are there any court cases or Gaming decisions that says a casino is responsible for the losses of their drunken patrons. I would assume not or they wouldn't continue plying customers with unlimited booze in every casino in Vegas. Wynn made a business decision to do this I presume on the hope the gambling idiot will return.

*TT* · #5 03-18-2007, 07:16 PM

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But Wynn was not FORCED to return anything. Wynn made the CHOICE to do this.

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Semantics. Wynn was forced because when his family returned the next day with their lawyer threatening to put out a press release and take the story to the major news outlets they had no other choice to avoid a flood of bad press about an old guy who is semi-senile giving away his life savings in tips and losses at the casino. It was a business decision they made to protect the company and their investors, if they chose not to the losses might have been far greater in the long run.

PS: I never heard about a line of credit, makes sense.

psandman · #6 03-18-2007, 07:54 PM

http://casinogambling.about.com/gi/dynam.../509703899.html
(i ahve found no report on the result of that lawsuit)

http://rose.casinocitytimes.com/articles/6064.html

Schaapy · #7 03-18-2007, 07:57 PM

Techniques in Alchohol Management(TAM). It's a funny rule in Vegas, bu if someone is drunk, they can't place wagers. They can come back and say the casino took advantage of them

Broke Rounder · #8 03-19-2007, 03:51 PM

They can also be held liable for their gambling losses. Not long ago The Wynn was sued by the family of an elderly man who spread around something like 1/2 million in a 24 hour spree there, Wynn had to reimburse the family and the staff all had to refund their tips.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just cant believe this actually happened, do you have to link to this TT? I do believe you, but I would just like to read in detail what happened here. Thanks

Kowalski · #9 03-19-2007, 04:01 PM

I read in a Poker mag (Bluff I think), that there was one guy who sat down at a blackjack table, played for a while, tipped a dealer like 25k in 1k-5k Increments, went busto and left. He was not drunk, and when asked by the dealer (several times) if he was sure he wanted to tip that much, he replied yes coherently.

Then the man's attorney called the casino saying that he had some mental disorder and wanted the money back. The dealer who was tipped had to sell the car that she bought with the tips and return it to the big spendah.

AngusThermopyle · #10 03-19-2007, 04:15 PM

I call B.S.
The pit dealers pool their tokes. So that individual dealer would not get all $25K.