UTG JJ flop comes 263 rainbow

TJO · #1 02-28-2007, 01:35 PM

UTG+1 is 16/10.8
AF flop/turn/river 3.0/2.5/2.2
900 hands

UTG+2 is relatively unknown sLAG player.

UltimateBet 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls.

What do you think of my C/R?

Turn: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ????

Todd · #2 02-28-2007, 01:40 PM

I think the ck/r is great, I hate his cap. Cant see how you can be ahead, especially after that turn card.

I would ck/fold the turn.

Todd

bung · #3 02-28-2007, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is 16/10.8
AF flop/turn/river 3.0/2.5/2.2
900 hands

UTG+2 is relatively unknown sLAG player.

UltimateBet 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls.

What do you think of my C/R?

Turn: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ????

[/ QUOTE ]

cap pf, lead flop. If you get raised, you can call down. Villain's a very solid tag, and you're behind, but I'd still probably call down HU and showdown as cheaply as possible. I'm usually behind here and want to save as much as I can.

I can't say I like the C/R here. What hand that villain 3-bets pf do you beat? AK, TT....

By the turn you don't beat anything except TT.

TJO · #4 02-28-2007, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]

cap pf, lead flop. If you get raised, you can call down. Villain's a very solid tag, and you're behind, but I'd still probably call down HU and showdown as cheaply as possible. I'm usually behind here and want to save as much as I can.

I can't say I like the C/R here. What hand that villain 3-bets pf do you beat? AK, TT....

By the turn you don't beat anything except TT.

[/ QUOTE ]

When the villain 3-bets pf I think this hand range is TT+, AK.

So my plan is to c/r to get UTG+1 out of the hand. He's very likely holding one or two overcards to my JJ. If UTG+2 is also holding two overcards he'll probably call the raise and fold the flop UI. Since he raises I know he has a very big hand AA, KK maybe QQ.

AA (8 ways)
KK (8 ways)
QQ (8 ways)

24 hands I'm behind.

JJ (1 way)

1 hand I tie

TT (8 ways)
AK (16 ways)

24 hands I beat on the flop.

So I go to the check-raise in a fifty-fifty situation. When the turn card is a K there's simply not any hands left which I can beat. So the turn should be a super-easy c/f. Instead I call down. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

This is for all the n00bs out there like me making stupid calldowns.

findingneema · #5 02-28-2007, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]

AA (6 ways)
KK (6 ways)
QQ (6 ways)

18 hands I'm behind.

JJ (1 way)

1 hand I tie

TT (6 ways)
AK (16 ways)

22 hands I beat on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

00Snitch · #6 02-28-2007, 09:11 PM

90% of the time I cap preflop without thinking. The other 10% of the time I think about it, then cap it. Then lead the flop.

As you played this hand, the c/r is good. When he 3-bets your c/r you can probably rule out any combo of AK he may have had. I check/call down from there and plan on folding if any big card comes out. So, I guess i c/f your turn.

I often wonder about hands like this, if you take a line where you cap preflop, lead the flop and get raised. Should you just go into c/c? Should you c/f if any high card falls. I just think any high cards coming out will improve his hand to a winner if it isnt already.

TJO · #7 03-01-2007, 06:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

AA (6 ways)
KK (6 ways)
QQ (6 ways)

18 hands I'm behind.

JJ (1 way)

1 hand I tie

TT (6 ways)
AK (16 ways)

22 hands I beat on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. Thanks. I feel so stupid after trying to be "so smart". [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

So the odds are even more to the favour of the opponent not having big pp.

If somebody out there is as dumb as me. Check out this link. It might help to clear a couple of very basic things up.

Set_Wenker · #8 03-01-2007, 07:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]

cap pf, lead flop.

I can't say I like the C/R here. What hand that villain 3-bets pf do you beat? AK, TT....

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand your reasoning here. If a cap PF is okay. Then calling pf and checkraising the flop would be okay too in my opinion.

You assume you can't checkraise the flop because there are few hands we beat wich Villain would 3-bet preflop. If this is the case: why would we cap PF in the first place?

Big Folder · #9 03-01-2007, 05:11 PM

c/r is good. Only way to protect and he'll likely bet.

Turn I c/f. I doubt he's 3-betting a c/r with just AK or AQ, but if he did he just got there with AK. You are either already behind or just fell behind.

Faluzure · #10 02-28-2007, 02:36 PM

I prefer call donk/3bet to get a better idea of where we're at. If we cap preflop we really don't get any more information, and we are betting flop anyway. The donk/3bet allows him the chance to cap to tell us for sure we're behind. Most sLAGs probably 3 bet our c/r with 77+ AQ+, but by leading out and 3 betting, it's less likely we're going to see a no pair cap I think. (this is my opinion, definitely not necessarily right). Next to an ace, the king is the worst turn card ever. I check/fold, maybe bet/fold c/f river, since QQ or JJ might just call down after K comes.