Loose/Tight theory at NO RAKE sites

[DeNutza]

Players are under the impression that WSEX games are
filled with rocks...I primarily play Omaha their so
I cant comment on the holdem.

Theoritically WSEX games should be looser than other
sites, because it is now profitable to play more
hands...

Hands like J8 offsuit that may be a small loser on
the button (steal situation) due to the rake are
NOW PLAYABLE..

This goes for EVERY position.

Players that are folding more or playing the same
# of hands as they do on RAKE sites are playing
non-optimally.

Some food for thought.

[Mike Jett]

I must be missing something, because this is making perfect sense to me.

[stocktrader23]

What kind of idiot logic is this? You can now play certified LOSING HANDS because you get rake back? You get rake back for not playing it as well.

[d10]

[ QUOTE ]
You get rake back for not playing it as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

[acesinurface4]

Very good point... a very good post.. yes u can play much looser when u are not paying rake cuz obviously u have more free money to do it with.

[DeNutza]

Some of you are not understanding this correctly.

To make this clearer, take a simulation program like Turbo
Holdem:

on the button, steal situtation 10-20 game:

Each hand played has an expectation that will
look something like this:

Raked game: AA +45
JT: + 2.00
J9: +0.37
J8: -1.00

J8 has negative expectation due to paying rake...

When paying no rake, J8 will now have + expecation.


Now the guy that said this was idiotic logic,
would you prefer to play hands that have positive
expectation or fold them?

[yoshi_yoshi]

this is obv true for no rake sites, but wsex doesn't count.

rakeback at wsex is not contributed, so if you generate a buck of rake with your j8, you'll get back 10c (10-handed).

if you want to play more hands best to find a place w/ contributed rakeback like the vc/doyle group (~30%). other option is to play 2/3 handed at wsex.

[doc_1982]

I think i remember Mike Caro saying that in a game where rake is charged by the hour, it suits to play much more loosely than games where rake is charged on every hand. I guess this principle could be applied to the lack of rake at WSEX.

[d10]

[ QUOTE ]
Some of you are not understanding this correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think you're not understanding this correctly. WPX gives you the same amount of rake back for a hand whether you play it or not. The profitability of a hand beyond that can be determined the same way you'd determine the profitability of a hand when rake is charged. WPX is not so much rake free as it is a raked site that offers a continuous 1x-5x (variable on stakes/# of players) bonus.

[DeNutza]

Ok, d10, I see your point concerning WSEX.

So they are not a true No Rake site.......

They should change their policy to only reward players
that were involved in a hand (contributors to the
rake).

So my comments would only apply to sites that truly
take no rake or only distribute the rake back based
on players that saw the flop.