fairest way to handle situation?

[fslexcduck]

i won't reveal what the floor decision was until later in order not to skew results. i just want to see how you would rule. here's the situation:

2/5nl, button raises to 25, 4 calls. flop is J55hh. check, mp bets 30, CO calls, button makes it 330, SB shoves for 675, CO calls all in for 300, and button starts thinking. CO then randomly flips over his J5 for the flopped boat, so button mucks his AQhh. SB had 45s and is livid because the flush draw will obviously not call an all in for 375 more getting even money, however he would have called getting 5 to 1 or so not knowing that someone was already full.

what's the ruling here on CO's hand, the situation, etc?

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
i won't reveal what the floor decision was until later in order not to skew results. i just want to see how you would rule. here's the situation:

2/5nl, button raises to 25, 4 calls. flop is J55hh. check, mp bets 30, CO calls, button makes it 330, SB shoves for 675, CO calls all in for 300, and button starts thinking. CO then randomly flips over his J5 for the flopped boat, so button mucks his AQhh. SB had 45s and is livid because the flush draw will obviously not call an all in for 375 more getting even money, however he would have called getting 5 to 1 or so not knowing that someone was already full.

what's the ruling here on CO's hand, the situation, etc?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand - why does SB care? He's already in and he's already drawing dead, what difference does it make to him unless he somehow thinks CO and Button are colluding with this play? Seems to me the only one losing out here was the CO, no?

[fslexcduck]

um, no. SB was going to get the overcall with button having just a flush draw and make substantial equity on the 375 more. button would only make the overcall if he thought he had a shot at the whole pot, not just the 375 on top.

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
um, no. SB was going to get the overcall with button having just a flush draw and make substantial equity on the 375 more. button would only make the overcall if he thought he had a shot at the whole pot, not just the 375 on top.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reading hands is obviously -EV at the end of a long night shift - thanks for the clarification... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[TheStation]

Crappy situation - I have seen this before and most of the time the only ruling is that button has option to call or fold which in this case will be a clear fold - Cant really force the button to call here, CO player should get a warning for this as well for being an idiot

[smoothraise]

[ QUOTE ]
Crappy situation - I have seen this before and most of the time the only ruling is that button has option to call or fold which in this case will be a clear fold - Cant really force the button to call here, CO player should get a warning for this as well for being an idiot

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with TheStation here. It is certainly a crappy situation and the above is the only way I have ever seen it handled. However, I believe the correct ruling should be:

CO hand is dead. He exposed his hand during play that changed the play of other players. It was his mistake that cost another money or Sklansky bucks. His bad.

I have had almost this exact situation happen to me when I was in the sb's position, so perhaps I am biased. But, I see no reason why the sb should lose money(or even the chance at a +ev spot) because of anothers careless mistake. If one of two people should suffer because of this then it should be co, imo.

Fwiw,

Sb's equity was 71% over AQhh in possible $345 side pot. If button calls, then co cost sb $245 in Sklanksy bucks.


---
903 games 0.005 secs 180,600 games/sec

Board: Jh 5h 5d
Dead: 5s Js

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 71.2625 % 71.21% 00.06% { 5c4c }
Hand 2: 28.7375 % 28.68% 00.06% { AhQh }


---

345 * .7162 = 245.84

Also, before the exposed cards, buttons decision was to continue rights to a 1120 main pot and 345 side pot. 345 into 1465= 1:4.2 odds.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand - why does SB care? He's already in and he's already drawing dead...

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he's hoping for the fifth 5.

[jrforman]

CO hand should be dead. No excuse for exposing his cards in a multiway pot especially since it adversely affected the SB.

[RR]

There isn't much to rule on. The CO shouldn't have shown his but he did. I know there will be a bunch of people say his hand shoudl be dead, well it isn't he has his cards he put his money in the pot. This is happening more often and we can blame the TDA. by making it a requirement that all-in hands be turned up in tournaments there are often palyers turning hands up when they don't realize another palyler is still in or if they are just too impatient to wait. If the CO has done this sort of thing in the past you can send him out of the room, but he still gets this pot before he goes.

[NickMPK]

The CO's hand is not dead. In a tournament, you would give him a time penalty, but in a cash game, all you can do is give him a warning.