Another question on player preferences.

[JohnnyGroomsTD]

How many of you have played in a card room that uses a betting line? Do you prefer it, or the forward motion rule?

[psandman]

The first time I played poker in a casino there was a betting line, I remember very vividly that a player reached out over the line with chips and tapped the table like a check. He was required to bet (this was a limit game but it might have been spread limit 1-4-8-8). At the time I felt like the line was good thing, I thought I was being protected from players doing dishonest things (like pretend to bet but actually check).

Over time I have learned to despise the lines. They become the tools of nits. "That chip didn't go over the line" or people playing games pushing their chips up to the line but not going over. I happened to be at Palace Station on the morning that they had just put in new felts with the betting lines (I'm not a regular there but picked this up from the converstaion) before the game got started the local nits were actually debating whether a chip had to cross the inside plane of the line or the outside plane of the line before it was a bet.

Today I would prefer that there not be a betting line.

[mpitts]

Like psandman said, I think that betting lines become a tool that nits and angle shooters exploit. I prefer the forward motion rule.

I always just verbalize what I am doing. It removes all doubt.

[youtalkfunny]

We've had this discussion many times in the past. I'm pretty sure the consensus is that having the line is good (to help the dealers handle short-armed players), but attaching rules to the line is bad.

Of course, I might be thinking that was the consensus because it's how I feel about the matter personally...

[steamboatin]

Having a line is good because the bets are out there where you can see them and it is easier on the dealer not having to reach as far.

Enforceing the line sucks for all the reasons stated previously and I remeber playing with an old guy that never made a betting line violation without the NUTS.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
We've had this discussion many times in the past. I'm pretty sure the consensus is that having the line is good (to help the dealers handle short-armed players), but attaching rules to the line is bad.

Of course, I might be thinking that was the consensus because it's how I feel about the matter personally...

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to disagree with this. When players see a line they tend to associate rules with it. A player who sees a betting line, but then doesn't see it enforced feels that rules are being broken.

If you are concerned with dealers not being able to reach bets perhaps a design on the felt (such as the casino logo in various spots on the table) could be used to act as a landmark "please push that past the logo so that i can reach it"

I have a long wingspan so i don't have this problem.

[AWLurch]

I am not a fan of the betting line, I much rather prefer competent dealers. If there is a case where they were not prevalent perhaps I would push for the betting line.

[Don Olney]

Here in Vegas I have played both.
It seems in the limit games the bet line did not really make a difference BUT in no-limit the bet line does help. I guess given a one or the other choice I would take the bet line. It does cut down on the DID HE OR DID HE NOT use forward motion.

[Howard Beale]

I dislike the betting line. There are people who have difficulty even reaching it (the old, short, infirm) and there are just as many arguments w/ the betting line as without.

Whatever you do don't do what Casino Arizona has done: Install betting lines that are not betting lines. When they put them in a few years ago I asked a floor person why they were installing betting lines. She answered that they weren't sure if they would use them as betting lines. Well, they are not betting lines but when out-of-towners visit many think they are betting lines thus making things ridiculous sometimes.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever you do don't do what Casino Arizona has done: Install betting lines that are not betting lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to view these as "don't be a douche, put your bets in where the dealer can reach them" line. There's probably some OSHA thing associated with it, too. I like them.

I run a home game with several tables and people coming from various levels of poker experience. We have no lines. People cut out chips in front of their cards sometimes, and even occasionally leave them sitting there why thinking about action. In two years it has not been a problem for people to rub two brain cells together to either: understand through body language and facial expression and hand movement; or simply ask what the other player is doing.

I work in a room with the line, but it's not an official betting line. Again, so far there has been no confusion. Other regional rooms use it as a line, but those who travel between casinos don't seem confused. I, as a dealer, run my game well. I understand and respect the game of poker. I can tell when others may be confused by their perceived ambiguity and I nip situations before they occur.

Encourage those who play in your room to announce all action and train your dealers to run the game, and it will never matter. But put in the line so your dealers have something to point to for the a-hole customers, and support your dealers when they insist a-hole players in the outlying seats push their bets forward. I think using the line as a guide is good, but giving it magical properties leads to nittitude of extreme proportions.

WHATEVER you do, DO NOT have the air space above the line be included in whatever. I've been in places that ruled (in limit) that if you had enough chips in your hand for a raise, it's a raise, regardless of how many you released. I can understand how these silly policies came into being, but there are other, saner solutions.