playing aces

TheBeats · #1 10-19-2007, 04:59 PM

it's an on-line $5-$10 limit game, you are in third position with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

small blind is a player you've not seen before, you've been slugging it out with UTG+1 you are both semi-loose, aggressive players

Pre-Flop:

UTG+1 calls, you raise, small blind calls, all other players fold

Flop J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]:

small blind checks, UTG+1 bets, you call, small blind calls

Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]:

small blind checks, UTG+1 bets, you raise, small blind raises, UTG+1 calls, you call

River J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]:

small blind checks,, UTG+1 bets,

what's your play, what do you put your opponents on?

One Outer · #2 10-19-2007, 05:35 PM

Welcome to the forums.

Not raising the flop here is pretty bad, IMO. I see what you're doing but you're letting SB in cheap. I don't like it. I used this picture yesterday and this is an appropriate time to pull it out again.

As played, I think you should call the turn and only call the river if you're not overcalling. You have lots of outs against two pair.

Bob T. · #3 10-19-2007, 06:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you're putting villain on AxKc?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, why not raise the flop. I would rather offer the third guy into the pot 4.5 to one, than 8 to 1.

[ QUOTE ]
what's your play, what do you put your opponents on?

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I don't like your seat here, the SB could be trying to checkraise again, I don't want to get stuck in the middle of a raising war here, so I probably think I have to fold now. I just wish we had raised on the flop.

TheBeats · #4 10-19-2007, 08:06 PM

Thanks One Outer and Bob.

Ok, confession time, I was sb with trip twos.

I don't normally play this high, I felt that the other players had mis-played their hands, but wasn't sure if I was missing something.

On the river aces raised, I three-bet, UTG+1 and aces call.

UTG+1 turns up KJ, I told you they'd being going at it. I suspect Aces thought he was trapping UTG+1 and hoping that I'd missed a flush/straight draw on river.

Checking I was expecting to get bet, call, c/r and hoping for two crying calls.

Is my re-raise on the river correct with seat three raising. I was certainly sweating a bigger set as I get called twice.

One Outer · #5 10-19-2007, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks One Outer and Bob.

Ok, confession time, I was sb with trip twos.

I don't normally play this high, I felt that the other players had mis-played their hands, but wasn't sure if I was missing something.

On the river aces raised, I three-bet, UTG+1 and aces call.

UTG+1 turns up KJ, I told you they'd being going at it. I suspect Aces thought he was trapping UTG+1 and hoping that I'd missed a flush/straight draw on river.

Checking I was expecting to get bet, call, c/r and hoping for two crying calls.

Is my re-raise on the river correct with seat three raising. I was certainly sweating a bigger set as I get called twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yeah they misplayed their hands. UTG way overplayed top pair and AA should have raised the flop.

I'm not sure I three bet the river. I don't have a big problem with it, and I'm not sure whether it might be a mistake. I'm going to say it's ok because if you're going to make a mistake like this is should be a mistake of aggression in a big pot with a huge hand.

I'd be less than honest if I didn't say that I was mildly annoyed by you posting the hand as if you had aces. Not sure why.

Xhad · #6 10-19-2007, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, confession time, I was sb with trip twos.

I don't normally play this high, I felt that the other players had mis-played their hands, but wasn't sure if I was missing something.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO you played your hand worse than the AA.

I don't know what everyone's afraid of "letting in cheap" on a J24 rainbow flop 3 handed. If there's a reason slowplaying to the turn is bad it's because a flop raise induces a 3bet from Jx more often than a turn raise will. His line even has the benefit of not making it obvious when he peels with overs.

The 22 slowplay, on the other hand...because it looks like the PFR has AK, there is a higher than usual risk of a turn checkthrough, along with a higher risk that pfr gets away without putting in any more money. Raise the flop.

TheBeats · #7 10-19-2007, 08:59 PM

I appreciate the analysis, thanks and sorry.

I felt the interesting play was that of UTG+1 and aces, and I was curious if anyone would find the play correct, I couldn't see that happening if you knew sb cards. I also thought knowing I was in the sb and asking "what do you think of these guys play" would bias things against them.

TheBeats · #8 10-19-2007, 09:14 PM

Xhad, I felt bets were coming out of the players (I said they were slugging it out), the flop didn't look very co-ordinated and I certainly didn't want to get put on two pair or trips and win a small pot pre-turn. Or tip my strength and get called down (at best).

Harv72b · #9 11-21-2007, 08:16 PM

Given your reads on the villains, I like your flop & turn play here. As you point out, if you lead that flop it becomes relatively likely that UTG+1 raises & blows the PFR out of the pot (when he doesn't actually have an overpair). Or that you pinch UTG+1 out of it when he's got, say, 66 & figures you have at least a J & UTG+2 may raise behind him. There aren't really any draws for them to put you on (nor any draws for them to beat you with), so a slowplay isn't at all bad.

I dig the turn check/3bet. Two aggressive players, a bet & call on the flop, a relative blank on the turn...I sincerely doubt it's getting checked through ever. And you can't really fear set over set until the 3rd turn raise, so no need to go weak.

You got insanely lucky on the river, not only that it went bet/raise in front of you again, but also that both players paid off. River check/raises (or check/3bets) make baby Jebus smile, but whiffing on 'em when one or more opponents would clearly have called a bet makes baby Jebus pour sugar in your gas tank.

TheBeats · #10 11-22-2007, 09:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You got insanely lucky on the river, not only that it went bet/raise in front of you again, but also that both players paid off. River check/raises (or check/3bets) make baby Jebus smile, but whiffing on 'em when one or more opponents would clearly have called a bet makes baby Jebus pour sugar in your gas tank.

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I've missed bets here before and it is painful.

At the time my thought was "one of these suckers is going to bet, I can probably get 2 bets out of this". Getting 3 bets in and not having run into another set _is_ insanely lucky. Calling the 2 bets when it got back to me would have been wiser.

The fact a couple of draws are present on the turn (two hearts and the JT) works in my favour, semi-bluffing is so popular, I believe they think I had a huge draw (on the turn) and had missed when I checked the river.