top pair checkup

[private joker]

Seemingly innocuous/boring hand, but there are plenty of different lines I could take with it on the flop, turn, and river, so I'm posting it to see what sort of discussion comes about.

30/60. A loose fishy guy limps UTG, a weakish, blah player limps in MP. I limp on the button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB completes and BB checks. SB is very loose and bad (loves to cold-call 3 PF and fold for one bet on the flop, and also can't read hands at all), but not overly passive at all.

Flop is 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB fires out, BB folds, UTG calls, MP folds. I decide to call.

Turn is the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB bets, UTG folds, I raise. SB calls.

River is the 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB checks, I bet...

[Justin A]

Yes.

Edit/ I guess I shouldn't just make a dumb post like that, so some explanation. I like the flop call although I think raising is fine as well. Turn raise seems good, and since you did raise the turn, river is a must bet since you're most likely chopping at worst and it's at least possible to get a chopping hand to fold.

[AragornX151]

[ QUOTE ]
river is a must bet since you're most likely chopping at worst and it's at least possible to get a chopping hand to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree. I like the turn raise to charge spade & pair + gutshot type hands (and if you get him off an ace then, that's a sweet bonus), but if he called the turn raise with an 8 (including 87 type hands, which have now improved), he's almost never folding the river. IMO, you lose to a blah ace far more often than your bet gets him off a chop. Check the river.

[jkamowitz]

100 % agree with aragorn.

He has oesd/flushdraw/good8/Ace and two of those are obviously not folding and the other two are not calling anyways.

The only value could be if you're positive he missed his draw and you don't want people knowing you played 810 this way.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
river is a must bet since you're most likely chopping at worst and it's at least possible to get a chopping hand to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree. I like the turn raise to charge spade & pair + gutshot type hands (and if you get him off an ace then, that's a sweet bonus), but if he called the turn raise with an 8 (including 87 type hands, which have now improved), he's almost never folding the river. IMO, you lose to a blah ace far more often than your bet gets him off a chop. Check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. This guy has been described as the type who will coldcall 3 bets and then fold for one bet on the flop. I could be wrong but this seems like the type of guy who will also fold too many rivers. Pot is big and since we're usually either winning or chopping anyway, a bet rarely has to work as a bluff to be profitable.

[SNOWBALL]

I check river and raise flop

[Sailboats]

hmm isnt preflop a fold? weren't u the guy i saw muck A8s on the button in a 20 game at the Commerce?

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
hmm isnt preflop a fold? weren't u the guy i saw muck A8s on the button in a 20 game at the Commerce?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no and no.

I think it's profitable to limp some suited connectors and one-gappers on the button when bad players are in the pot.

And I'd only fold A8s on the button if there was a raise.

[Sailboats]

There was no raise and one or two limpers. I'm pretty sure. Maybe the guy limped UTG. And ya said "it has been shown that limping A8s preflop to be -EV." This was like last week.

edit: Maybe it was to a raise. It's late. iono

[Munchkin Mayor]

I would have raised the flopped. Bet the turn and been scared out by the bottom card pairing up. Seems like he probably made his hand.

In any case, if he has an 8 his isn't going to fold to a river bet if he called your turn raise. The only value you get is if he happens to have 6x.