Trying to improve your game? How?

[diebitter]

I want to constantly improve as a player. I want to win big tournaments, and sit at big tables with confidence. I am committed to learning, and playing well at the tables I sit at.


I play large-field tournaments and single/2-table Full-Ring (at nl100 now, and transitioning to nl200, where I've played in the past). I also play the odd SNG, and also satellites into more expensive tourneys (which I often cash out - I find these fields much softer than, say, the 10/180s). I'm not a pro, so I also play as a hobby rather than a job. I am a more experienced tourney player (2 years+) than NL FR player (6 months+).


Here's the ways I try and improve:

1) I play FR shortstack at least one session a week. This keeps me sharp on what good shortstack play is, and makes it much easier to spot good and bad SS players, and play back at them more appropriately.

2) I try and play an 8+ table session once every 2 weeks. This gives me an insight into how multitablers think and act, and helps in playing back at them. This is a recent addition to my pokerlife.

3) I read a lot. 2+2 is useful. I acquire books at a fair rate too, and tend to skim new books for stuff I need to read more deeply, and note stuff that I'll need to revisit in future. NLTAP is probably the book I use most at the moment. I also read and reread chapters and articles I find useful until they are fully internalised. I'll often reread the same article 10-20 times over a few weeks, to make sure I've thoroughly understood it (it's too easy to read poker books and remember the simple bits, and forget the exceptions/unusuals).

4) I have been moving up aggressively, particularly in tournament stakes. Having said that, I think I'll be making nl200 my home for a long time, as it meshes so well with the way I play. I will however be taking shots at higher levels from this safe ground. I'm aiming to use this as a base to finance getting into the big tourneys ($215-$1100 buyins), where 1 good run can maybe change your life.


So, what ways are you trying to improve?

[CityFan]

By focusing on one game (NL cash) and playing a lot of hands.

I've had some success in micro SnGs and a couple of big cashes in large field micro tourneys. I've also had some success at razz tourneys! I feel comfortable with late stage tournament play, and have a good final table/win conversion rate.

But now I want to become a really good NL player, and that means playing the cash games. I've played quite a lot in homegames (and once in Vegas) but not much at all online.

I've just finished reading NLTAP, and intend to revisit it regularly when I think I need to brush up on particular aspects. In particular I want to work on my preflop game with big hands. What happens when my AK is 3-bet, for example? this may involve studying some pretty boring tables.

I have a small bankroll, so I intend to play, beat the small games, and move up as my bankroll grows. At the same time I gain experience, experiment with ideas, and learn (sometimes the hard way).

Two priorities that I need ot make sure I get round to:

1) Read those PF hand tables!
2) Review my sessions. Post more hands on 2+2. Swap session reviews with a mate.

[threads13]

I am doing a lot of the same things as you, Carter. I also try to just keep it to 1 or 2 tables for the most part.

1) I try to specifically pick a part of my game and focus on improving that. Generally I have a list of probably 10 things that I want to work on and each session I will try to really concentrate on one(or maybe two) of them. I want to start making a physical list to help keep myself clear on what exactly I want to improve on.

2) I also do a lot of reading. I read in lots of different sources besides here. I am constantly picking up new books and rereading old ones. When I read I also highlight and mark sections that I find a particularly important and useful.

3) I try to play only when I feel I am in good mental shape. In order to improve my game I need to have the focus to work on things. I find that I don't improve, or play well for that matter, if I am not totally into it.

4) I also try to play some other games to break the routine. I find playing other games helps me get better at this one because certain skills are more important in some games than others. Inevitably another game can highlight a weakness in my main game. I often find I am being ridiculously stupid in my main game by playing another game. I try to play some SnG's about once or twice a week. Also, I am starting to try to do a weekly MTT. Tourneys are a game I am trying to add. I will go back and play limit as the mood strikes. If nothing else, doing this tends to keep me mentally fresh.

5) I try to talk things out with other players whom I respect. I find that just talking about general concepts can help internalize them. Also, hearing someone else talk about a concept can help you if you hear the same thing from a different point of view.


I haven't actually done this yet, but teaching a new player would help me a lot. I used to be a guitar teacher, so I know that teaching something causes you to really have to know it. If you don't REALLY know it, then you can't explain it well enough. Having said that, I only have about 10k hands at NL so I don't know how many players would want me to teach them stuff! It would actually make more sensefor me to teach limit since I have more playing experience there. However, this isn't the area I am trying to improve as much.

[diebitter]

teaching: good idea. I just wanted to point out that sometimes it's useful not because you have to be solid on it yourself, but because sometimes you've internalised a concept so much, the causality and the reasoning behind it has been forgotten. Having to explain it refreshes this and teases it out from being just a rule embedded in your thinking.

[LearningCurve]

Great idea for a thread, Diebitter. I'm inspired just from reading the first few responses.

I still feel really, really new to any form of poker. I am less than 25,000 for sure. As such playing is a huge portion of my learning process. I also enjoy reading posts and various books but all too often I find that I have difficulty applying concepts online. I like the idea of re-reading ad nauseam until it really is second nature.

Think talking about hands is a fantastic way to continue to grow. Don't really have others who play regularly around, but I've always found it highly effective to be able to bounce ideas off of someone else. That sort of synergy is terrific.

Threads, I suspect you would have plenty of takers. Helping someone else is definitely in my plans for the future. First though I need a bit more work figuring out what I'm doing. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Oh, and edited to include one more thing:

After playing a long stint at 6-max (over 1/2 of my hands probably) I really want to work on improving my aggression. Aggressive players are so much more difficult to play against. Unfortunately, I think one in order for me to become really comfortable with being aggressive, I will need to be a bit over-rolled for whatever level I'm playing (currently .10/.25). I guess I could step down and go from there but with most of my hands being in 10NL I really do think I can accurately say it's difficult to really play thinking poker in the micros. Not suggesting all of the players are crap-shooters, but there are certainly more than a few. I don't enjoy that type of poker as much. I'd much prefer to think my way around things than to just throw all of my stack into the middle and gambool! Therefore, right now one of my primary goals is to eek my br up to be able to experiment a bit more.

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
Great idea for a thread, Diebitter. I'm inspired just from reading the first few responses.

I still feel really, really new to any form of poker. I am less than 25,000 for sure. As such playing is a huge portion of my learning process. I also enjoy reading posts and various books but all too often I find that I have difficulty applying concepts online. I like the idea of re-reading ad nauseam until it really is second nature.

Think talking about hands is a fantastic way to continue to grow. Don't really have others who play regularly around, but I've always found it highly effective to be able to bounce ideas off of someone else. That sort of synergy is terrific.

Threads, I suspect you would have plenty of takers. Helping someone else is definitely in my plans for the future. First though I need a bit more work figuring out what I'm doing. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


Maybe here in the next couple weeks I will post something about this. It is something that has been brewing in my head for the last few months and even more so in the last few weeks. The thing is, I would really only have time to do 1 "student" or whatever you want to call it, so I wouldn't want it be awkward. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As far as talking about poker outside of here, I generally bug people by PM. Often times this develops into talking outside of 2+2 and talking on AIM, for example.

Most people here are fine with chatting outside of the forums. I suggest PM'ing some posters to ask questions(or ask if it ok to ask them some questions). It is nice to have a fellow player to talk to in depth about certain hands. Often you can get a different level of discussion out of this than is normal on the forums.

This brings up something else I forgot. I like to sweat and to be sweat. I think this can really help find more areas where you can improve.

[King Spew]

OP, nice thread idea.

Two things I will add, both are things I have posted in the past in other threads.

(1) Take shots. Buy-in short if you like... but take shots. (and don't change your "style")

(2) Something I started about a year ago REALLY has paid off well for me. I have a Master document with three or four sub-Documents on my desktop. The Master is for General play, the subs more specific.

If I see a statement/strategy I read here on 2+2 that I like, I don't add it to my favorites. I cut and paste into the appropriate document....adding a little "setup" if needed.

Now when I need a little pick-me-up or MORE LIKELY a refocus back to "my game", I read my Master.....think Yoda here if you like. My Master is about 7 pages long and takes me about a half hour to read carefully. Funny thing is, that's about the time it takes for me to adequately mine a few tables BEFORE play.

<font color="blue">I am now kicking my butt pretty hard right now. I have been losing most of my roll over the past 5-6 weeks. Coincidently, I haven't read my Master lately either. I'll do better tonight, I guarantee it! </font>

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
OP, nice thread idea.

Two things I will add, both are things I have posted in the past in other threads.

(1) Take shots. Buy-in short if you like... but take shots. (and don't change your "style")

(2) Something I started about a year ago REALLY has paid off well for me. I have a Master document with three or four sub-Documents on my desktop. The Master is for General play, the subs more specific.

If I see a statement/strategy I read here on 2+2 that I like, I don't add it to my favorites. I cut and paste into the appropriate document....adding a little "setup" if needed.

Now when I need a little pick-me-up or MORE LIKELY a refocus back to "my game", I read my Master.....think Yoda here if you like. My Master is about 7 pages long and takes me about a half hour to read carefully. Funny thing is, that's about the time it takes for me to adequately mine a few tables BEFORE play.

<font color="blue">I am now kicking my butt pretty hard right now. I have been losing most of my roll over the past 5-6 weeks. Coincidently, I haven't read my Master lately either. I'll do better tonight, I guarantee it! </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Another good idea. Nice on, sir.

[MyTurn2Raise]

2 things that really pay off for me


1) goto penny stakes (something so low you don't care about the money and losing it) and play every single hand in position. Cold call every raise and raise every time it is limped to you. What it does is help you learn to hand read and go through different lines that your opponent's play and what it means. Believe it or not, the roots of most higher level play is already evident.
A more extreme version is to play every hand out of position to see how difficult it is and what lines you can take.
Both will improve your hand reading quite a bit.


2) Pick out a HERO at a higher stake game (2-3 levels higher) and datamine him like crazy. Then, review his sessions. Try to see the nuances of his/her play. Hand read at that higher level. Try to understand the actions s/he takes. Think through it and try to put yourself into their mind.
Actually, pick out 2 or 3 HEROES.

There are about 6 guys out there at FTP that have developed my game more than any coach, yet they don't even know that I exist and that I watch them.

[LifeTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
There are about 6 guys out there at FTP that have developed my game more than any coach, yet they don't even know that I exist and that I watch them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good suggestions and I do really mean it. But at the same time I had to call you out, cause, let's be serious, that's kinda creepy... lol