5/10 J6s

[Rico Suave]

Since I suck pretty bad, I am going to post more hands.

MP is fairly tight....pretty passive/predictable postflop
Button is TAG
CO is Loose, generally passive, goes to far...blah, blah.


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero?

Anyone want to convince me that folding is the play?

--Rico

[Niediam]

Fold preflop.

Raise the flop.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.



[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[Niediam]

I know we are getting solid pot odds but I'm not sold that it's profitable to play random suited cards vs what is going to be a made hand a significant percentage of the time. Even if im wrong I can't imagine that such a play is at best super small +EV and thats assuming we play amazingly postflop. Feel free to prove me wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Question: Would you still call if the action instead went - raise, cold call, cold call considering that in theory you should be up against stronger hands and your relative position is much weaker?

[Zach6668]

Just keep in mind that you are really trying to hit 2 pair or better (fd, oesd) on the flop.

However, with a flop like this, there is actually a chance that we are ahead in the hands, as the board is quite dry. The PFR is likely to have overs, and we could be folding other 6s (A6, K6) from the limpers if they are faced with two cold. I'd become very concerned though if I didn't manage to get it heads up here, and I'd probably be putting the brakes on, UI.

- Zach

[Zeatrix]

Trust in the backdoor flush!

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I know we are getting solid pot odds but I'm not sold that it's profitable to play random suited cards vs what is going to be a made hand a significant percentage of the time. Even if im wrong I can't imagine that such a play is at best super small +EV and thats assuming we play amazingly postflop. Feel free to prove me wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I don't know how you think the button is going ot have a made hand a "significant" amount of the time. If he's any good at all, he's going to have a much weaker hand here than he will anywhere else on this table.

As far as playing "amazingly" post-flop, I think you're overstating things. Its important that you play better than your opponents. And it's important that you know what you're doing. But most people suck so if you're half alive you should be fine to play this hand from this spot. Most of the time you're juch going to check-fold the flop. Other times you're just going to have to get involved.

Also, you should consider this hand within a range of other hands, if you will. Many of your opponents suck at contextualizing plays. Half of them will think your hand trash, the other half standard. But only a few of them will know why you played this hand where you did and for what reasons.

[ QUOTE ]
Question: Would you still call if the action instead went - raise, cold call, cold call considering that in theory you should be up against stronger hands and your relative position is much weaker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'd def call here too. I like check-raising fields.

[Niediam]

I'm curious now if anybody has any PT stats about how they have done in this situation?

Say 3+ villians in a raised pot and you are in the BB with any two suited J or lower not counting suited connectors and 1 gappers.

[car ramrod]

pf is close, 3/5 blind structure, right? if so, I'd call getting 5-1 immediate, and 7-1 implied.

I would raise the flop.

[W. Deranged]

Given that you have perfect relative position and you have the best hand often in a big pot, folding would not be good here.

Check-raise the flop and reevaluate.