Would this be angle shooting or cheating?

[nextgenneo]

Two scenario's. If you did these in a live poker room would you still win the pot? Obviously these are both low brow and bad etiquette.

Scenario 1

Someone else is contemplating acting after you have raised, you have a garbage hand and want them to fold so you say "all-in" as if they have already acted and you like your hand so much that you will stack it. If they do actually then go all in you say that you had acted out of turn and fold. Allowed?


Scenario 2

On the river you announce you have a full house or a winning hand and try to get the other person to muck without you showing. Then if they do take the bait and muck you flip over an ace high and ship the pot. Allowed?

[mbsocc1346]

If you were to do any of these at my table, I would make sure the floor kicked you out. Just play with some integrity and play poker. Don't rely on angles to get you in the green.

[chucky]

Both are angleshoots. If you are going to use these tactics, save yourself the trouble of the angry posts you will receive in this forum and keep your use of the tactics to yourself.

[One Outer]

Is this serious? Of course these are angles and cheating.

[Taso]

[ QUOTE ]
Two scenario's. If you did these in a live poker room would you still win the pot? Obviously these are both low brow and bad etiquette.

Scenario 1

Someone else is contemplating acting after you have raised, you have a garbage hand and want them to fold so you say "all-in" as if they have already acted and you like your hand so much that you will stack it. If they do actually then go all in you say that you had acted out of turn and fold. Allowed?


Scenario 2

On the river you announce you have a full house or a winning hand and try to get the other person to muck without you showing. Then if they do take the bait and muck you flip over an ace high and ship the pot. Allowed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Scenario 1:

I'm not an expert, but I believe as long as the action hasn't changed, you are forced to make your raise. Example:

Player A bets $20, Player B is thinking and Player C says RAISE. Player B then states he hasn't acted yet, and announces he is calling the $20. Player C still has to raise to at least $40 because the bet hasn't changed yet.

This wouldn't apply in Example 2:

Player A bets $20, player B is thinking, player C announces Raise, player B informs that he hasn't acted and announces Raise and makes it $100 to go. Player C can now decide whether or not he wants to fold, call, or raise, because the action has changed.

Correct fellas?

Scenario 2: Intentionally miscalling your hand in order to get the other person to muck at the showdown is against the rules, and will result your hand being declared dead and the pot awarded to the other player.

[Diana Ross Fan]

[ QUOTE ]

Scenario 2: Intentionally miscalling your hand in order to get the other person to muck at the showdown is against the rules, and will result your hand being declared dead and the pot awarded to the other player.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's what should happen. What does happen is that the mucked hand is declared dead and the anngle shooter wins the pot.

[davidlong14]

Both are CHEATING, not angles...

[Diana Ross Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
Both are CHEATING, not angles...

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that if the rule says "intentionally miscalling your hand" then #2 is cheating. But since you can't prove intentions, #2 is better classified as an angle shoot. The angler can always claim he misread his hand.

[MrFizzbin]

Lets see, you have 1000+ posts on 2+2 and you're asking this question as if someone here would say "Yeah thats ok".... Hmmmm.... Seriously ?

I'm thinking Ban.....

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
But since you can't prove intentions, #2 is better classified as an angle shoot.

[/ QUOTE ]

We can prove intnet sufficiently to establish criminal convictions I believe we can surely prove them sufficiently to establish cheating in a poker game.