bellagio 10-20 deep: top 2 on the flop facing pressure

[mikech]

5-handed game in the wee hours, i open K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] utg to 60, button calls and blinds call, 4 to the flop of:

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb, a competent regular with a ~7k stack (i cover), leads for 160. i raise to 460. he 3bets to 1460. i call.

turn A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

he bets 2300, i call.

river 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

he pushes for his last 2960. can i possibly fold this river after calling the turn?

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]

5-handed game in the wee hours, i open K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] utg to 60, button calls and blinds call, 4 to the flop of:

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb, a competent regular with a ~7k stack (i cover), leads for 160. i raise to 460. he 3bets to 1460. i call.

turn A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

he bets 2300, i call.

river 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

he pushes for his last 2960. can i possibly fold this river after calling the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say no. Getting over 4-1 here when the main draws miss vs this line seems like a trivially easy call, otherwise, what are you calling the turn for?

[DJ Sensei]

either he's there with a set or he's on the way with a big draw. sometimes he'll luck into Ah8h but so it goes.

if you call turn, call this river.
but i think the time to decide how much you like your hand is the turn. and i think i'd rather shove if you're pretty confident that its good, since that way you make sure to get his whole stack in there if he's on the come, while he might c/f a missed draw if you call (not much FE left with that bet into that pot, unless you too have a whiffed draw).

[sauce123]

im sry but no one in htis thread has thrown out the fact that 88 is also in his range as is KK occasionally if hes one of the uber nitty/kinda tricky regs u unearth occasionally at casinos. But not factoring 88 into a range when 350 bets go in is ridiculous

[wickywahwah]

Not sure what your table image was at the time but unless it was that of a maniac, his lead and 3bet on the flop out of position screams AK or set (competent regular at 10/20 would be certainly capable of leading into you with a set there knowing you are aggressive and/or have overpair). I guess he can have Ah8h too.

All in all, that is a horrid turn card and I probably fold on the turn without any other reads on villain.

But the way it was played, you pretty much have to call on the river getting such a good price and having the slim possibility of overplayed 6h7h or K5s.

[BalugaWhale]

how come we stopped putting money in on the flop?

[mikech]

[ QUOTE ]
how come we stopped putting money in on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
because if 350bb's go in on the flop i'm almost never gonna be a big favorite, but i could very well be crushed?

[GTL]

this spot is really ugly. I think we need to push or fold on the turn, but I can't really explain why.

[johnnyrocket]

[ QUOTE ]
how come we stopped putting money in on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, we are ahead of pretty much everything but 55 here, if we are planning to call this down i like pushing hard on a 4 bet on the flop to push out some draws or make them pay.