Absolute Morality

[vhawk01]

On another forum I post on, we are having a debate about absolute morality. I'm pretty much the only atheist there, so I'm a little outnumbered. But the question I seem to keep asking is, why do we care about an absolute morality? I mean, they are saying that morality, in order to be absolute, must be compared to some absolute standard, i.e. God. Ok...and then? Why is this a beneficial approach to morality? It seems to me they are terrified that someone might come along and say 'Rape isn't wrong.' By holding on to absolute morality with their fingernails.

Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway.

[mbillie1]

There is no difference, people just like to claim to have absolute grounding for their opinions so they can moralize at others... it's not worth discussing it with them anyway. Anyone in 2007 who knows anything about philosophy and accepts absolute morality is obviously impervious to any argument you're going to make to them.

[SitNHit]

I think with Morality comes sacrafice, which is for a ultimate good which is believed by most to be rewarded with happiness , which if you want happiness and if indeed this is how you get it, then absoulte morality is important. Or im just crazy [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[samsonite2100]

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Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway.

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Because without the backing of a (preferably Christian) deity, moral standards obviously cease to have any meaning, and you'll have folks raping and murdering each other willy-nilly. You know, the way atheists do. I mean, go to any supermax prison and it's like, all atheist-types in there, just about.

[vhawk01]

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Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because without the backing of a (preferably Christian) deity, moral standards obviously cease to have any meaning, and you'll have folks raping and murdering each other willy-nilly. You know, the way atheists do. I mean, go to any supermax prison and it's like, all atheist-types in there, just about.

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Well, I think thats part of it, its used as a weapon to denigrate atheists. But the people I associate with concede that obviously most atheists are at least average, morally.

Is it an attempt at increasing the Might in their Might Makes Right?

[samsonite2100]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because without the backing of a (preferably Christian) deity, moral standards obviously cease to have any meaning, and you'll have folks raping and murdering each other willy-nilly. You know, the way atheists do. I mean, go to any supermax prison and it's like, all atheist-types in there, just about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think thats part of it, its used as a weapon to denigrate atheists. But the people I associate with concede that obviously most atheists are at least average, morally.

Is it an attempt at increasing the Might in their Might Makes Right?

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I don't think so. Here's my take on absolute morality--it's basically utilitarianism dressed up in an evening gown.

The golden rule, which you could credibly boil most absolute morality down to, turns out to be a very useful way to live one's life. Millions of years of human evolution have selected, genetically and culturally, for a race of beings that generally prizes avoiding gratuitous violence, rape, theft, etc. (Yes, I know these things occur, but when you look at all human activity, they're statistical outliers).

Despite religious folks' insistence on the existence of absolute morality, it's not the existence of "morality" that prevents people from murdering each other. We learn at a very young age that playing nice is better than playing mean, that taking other kids' lunches causes us to to be ostracized, etc.

The thought that, as adults, we need to have some big floating objective set of behavioral guidelines backed up by God in order to play nice is positively ridiculous--a fact to which the extremely minimal per capita presence of atheists in prison testifies.

[m_the0ry]

Absolute morality stems from the human desire to gossip. Absolute morality establishes an unnatural common ground where people all agree what is wrong and what is right, which leads to exclusion and gossip about those who disagree with the absolute morality.

In other words; it is gang mentality.

[SitNHit]

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Absolute morality stems from the human desire to gossip. Absolute morality establishes an unnatural common ground where people all agree what is wrong and what is right, which leads to exclusion and gossip about those who disagree with the absolute morality.

In other words; it is gang mentality.

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In my opinion Absolute Morality is believed by those who believe in a Supreme Being or something that has the power to determine what is right and what is wrong, a usual qualification is that they are the creator of everything and/or the host of heavenly eternity, etc.

If you are an Athiest you will never have Absolute Morality cause there is no Athiestic God that claims to have that authority and you by default won't take any fellow humans opinion/spiritual revelations on what is right or wrong so good luck trying to solve this one. 2,000,000 pages of posts won't get you any closer to a reasonable answer.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Absolute morality stems from the human desire to gossip. Absolute morality establishes an unnatural common ground where people all agree what is wrong and what is right, which leads to exclusion and gossip about those who disagree with the absolute morality.

In other words; it is gang mentality.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion Absolute Morality is believed by those who believe in a Supreme Being or something that has the power to determine what is right and what is wrong, a usual qualification is that they are the creator of everything and/or the host of heavenly eternity, etc.

If you are an Athiest you will never have Absolute Morality cause there is no Athiestic God that claims to have that authority and you by default won't take any fellow humans opinion/spiritual revelations on what is right or wrong so good luck trying to solve this one. 2,000,000 pages of posts won't get you any closer to a reasonable answer.

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the OP is not about whether or not god exists..it is about whether or not absolute morality is beneficial or whether or not thinking morality as absolute is beneficial..and then we went on to whether or not there can be an absolute morality even if a god exists...

I came to the conclusion that the term is meaningless and it doesn't "exist" even if there is a god with a specific morality.

[jogsxyz]

What about absolute morality on rape? Are all rapes created equal? What about statutory rape? Should that be lumped together with other forced rapes? Should the punishment be the same?