Jacks vs gp333

[LearnedfromTV]

gp has been slumming the last couple days. Since I have no table selection skills (or maybe because he does), I have like 700 hands with him, all recent.

He's running at like 24/18 and threebetting and coldcall/floating me enough for me to be pretty sure he likes being in pots with me in position. For the most part, I've leaned toward backing down, although I've gotten in my share of small bluffs. I'm at 21/17/3 or so, but probably playing slightly more passively versus gp than the average opponent.

So far he'd passed up an opportunity or two to 3 barrel me (also given up on a float after I check-called turn). We played a hand a bit before this where I called his raise in position w/ 98hh, flop A82 one heart, he bet I called, turn 4h, he bet I called. River low blank; We had enough history where I was planning on folding because I think he would expect me to have an ace lots after calling barrel 2 and that I wouldn't fold it to barrel 3. He checked and I beat KQ. I think this makes him more likely to bluff me this time, especially b/c this board isn't so good for check-calling down (relative to an ace-high type board).

So the hand: I hate all my options on the turn, but I went with check-call, planning to checkcall more than half of rivers. Then I folded this river. It's $145 to me.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($200)
Hero ($200)
MP ($440.50)
CO ($147.50)
Button ($193.35)
SB ($419.45)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, MP calls $8, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: ($19) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $14</font>, MP calls $14.

Turn: ($47) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $33</font>, Hero calls $33.

River: ($113) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $385.5 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

[0evg0]

call quickly

the difference between gp and every other 200nl player ive faced is that he knows how to turn a hand with SD value into a bluff.

i'll go into it more if you'd like, but his range here is flush/hands you beat

[Xanta]

Given "So far he'd passed up an opportunity or two to 3 barrel me" and the fact that gp is probably a dynamic, adjusting player who can peg your range pretty easily after UTG raise lead flop check/call turn, I would say that the line of c/c turn c/f river is not good.

Not sure whether I'd play turn different or not, but I think that if you do call turn calling the river makes sense.

[LearnedfromTV]

why can't he have 2 pair, a straight, or 555? Assuming he floats with some piece more than with no piece, that 5 hit a ton of stuff. If you're saying he wouldn't have bet most of that stuff on the turn, I don't know if I buy it. And I guess the other question is how much of that he value bets; my guess is all of it.

I think the snap call cards are 2, 3, board pair, diamond, and I probably call a K, A also. ?

Just thinking it through, not drawing any conclusions.

also the fact that it's an overbet has to factor in somewhere; getting worse than 2-1.

[ikestoys]

lol i've made worse calls against him

[Xanta]

You're correct in calling on safe rivers, but given the board they are kinda few and far between if you're not super comfortable with your diamond.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
why can't he have 2 pair

[/ QUOTE ]

name some 2 pair hands that take his pf, flop, and turn lines

[ QUOTE ]
a straight

[/ QUOTE ]

using exactly which cards that also take this pf, flop, and turn line

[ QUOTE ]
or 555

[/ QUOTE ]

why would he bet turn with 55? that's terrible.

[ QUOTE ]
also the fact that it's an overbet has to factor in somewhere; getting worse than 2-1.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is 100000% wrong

[ikestoys]

OP's read is remarkably good:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $2057
UTG+1: $224.75
CO: $1124.57
Button: $2037
SB: $2916.40
Hero: $4515

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $35</font>, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $175</font>, CO folds, Button calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($390, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $295</font>, Button calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($980, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $520</font>, Hero calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2020, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button is all-in $1047</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $4114
Button Shows Ad Qh
Hero Shows 8h 8c

Button is gp obv. gp has a flush or you have him beat here. he probably raises with a flush draw. calling isn't terrible, it'll give you a good image at least

[g-p]

[ QUOTE ]
why would he bet turn with 55? that's terrible.


[/ QUOTE ]
you dont think i would have 55 because a turn bet would be horrible, but for some reason you think i could easily have 89 and other one pair hands that i would bet turn wtih???

try actually putting me on something besides T9

[pineapple888]

Ok I don't know what all the hubbub is about but OP's line looks fine to me and this looks like a very standard river fold. At some point you have to forget about 15th-leveling and just play your damn hand. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]