A8 in BB

[Mr. Ratface]

This is actually my first hand and I just posted my blind. I had been watching the table for about 1.5 orbits but didnt see the villain do anythign crazy.


Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3.85
UTG+1: $11.20
CO: $34.56
Button: $9.60
SB: $3.60
Hero: $10


Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 folds, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls.


Flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8SB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.


Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to SB.


Results:
Final pot: 6BB


Was 3 betting the flop with position correct or do most just smooth call against an unknown? Was betting once checked to alright or was checking behind better? Once raised on the flop do you call and fold the turn or just fold staight on the flop?

[headofmike]

No

[fretelöo]

Wow, this hand is pretty spewy. If you didn't see any of them do anything weired while you were watching, I don't get why you 3bet your weak s00ted ace pf.

After he caps and checks the flop, I would gladly take the free card. There's literally nothing that you beat.

[martybonus]

hi ratface,

Unless I'm missing something pretty big, this wasn't played right at all. I'll be interested to hear what the better players think.

I don't like the PF 3bet much. I'm assuming you're trying to defend from a blind steal. But is there any indicator that villain is indeed trying to steal? Has he done so in the past? He might just have good cards. In my limited experience, people don't steal from the blinds that much.

A8s is no good short handed. You want multi-way action here.

I think a fold PF would have been fine. Think in the long term. Are you really going to earn enough money the 1 time you hit 2pair or a miracle flush flop do justify putting not 2 but *4* SB in the pot PF? Not HU I don't reckon...

I dont like the flop bet either. What is he capping with PF that this flop didn't help? If he's on AA, AK, or KK, you are drawing solely to the BDSD, but that would only chop the pot cos runing J,Q, would give you both the straight. If he's on AQs, he's got a GS and his kicker is beter than yours if an A falls. After he capped your 3bet PF it seems unlikely that he was actually trying to 'steal' anything.

In essense, your flop bet was a pure bluff which got raised and you should have released immediately. It would seem that villain has a legit hand and you don't really even have any hands you can improve to.

Simply put: PF - fold or at most call
flop - check behind, c/f on the turn.

[OziBattler]

[ QUOTE ]
A8s is no good short handed. You want multi-way action here.

[/ QUOTE ]

marty, A8s is a reasonable hand when you are in have BB and SB open raises. this is 6max so this guy can really have a wide range. Ace high can win at SD and we have position. sometimes I just call preflop if i think the guy is an idiot and is going to cap everything he raises with....sometimes we can do a delayed re-steal ... ie smoothcall preflop with the intention of popping him later.

what a preflop raise against an unknown may accomplish is to say "hey you, what ya got there bud?" and when he caps he may well be saying "yep, I gots the goods here sucker" in which case hero should be slowing down and releasing UI hands quite quickly. of course, he could also be on to OPs cunning countersteal strategy.....

of course, this guy could be a nutter but OP said he hadnt done anything crazy in the few hands he had seen...but also note that he is getting shortstacked and could be soon on his way to stacksville [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
In my limited experience, people don't steal from the blinds that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

can I Assume you are talking about bodog? I havent played there but I do play paradise and I do think there are less blatant steals there....but at stars, absolute, party and fulltilt you are gunna encounter lots more steals in the tighter games....hell, I imagine if bodog is like paradise that you dont even have to worry about SB stealing your BB because there is always players in the pot before it gets to SB [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[BigBadBabar]

marty especially, and somewhat fret, not sure where you guys are coming from.

it's 6max and sb raises whatever to steal the big blind. hero says nope, i have a good hand, and 3bets. sb caps, okay, he has something. i personally would check the flop and see what happens on the turn. as op played it he has to call the flop and fold the turn unimproved. not sure what the controversy is?

[fretelöo]

[ QUOTE ]
marty especially, and somewhat fret, not sure where you guys are coming from.

it's 6max and sb raises whatever to steal the big blind. hero says nope, i have a good hand, and 3bets. sb caps, okay, he has something. i personally would check the flop and see what happens on the turn. as op played it he has to call the flop and fold the turn unimproved. not sure what the controversy is?

[/ QUOTE ]

ARRRRGH!!! Completely missed that. I didn't even realize it was a blindsteal situation. Shouldn't be posting this early. Nevermind, nevermind, nevermind.

[martybonus]

balls!

I didn't even realise it was teh fish-max.

damnit. please ignore.

I know literally nothing about 6max.

hehe, note to self: read ALL the text [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

sry bout that!

[Absolution]

Why does he have to call the flop as played? A8s is basically the nuts here so the raise pre-flop is fine. When the SB caps it means he has a good hand, but people tend to spew in blind battles so reads help.

[Bona]

BBB I think your analysis is on point BUT... IMHO we can make more money playing with 'em than we can by playing like 'em. Why wouldn't we just call the preflop raise. Then we are in position to a) raise if we get a bit of the flop or: b) fold it for cheap or even call if we miss the flop.

Are we building equity by 3 betting preflop? Or by playing our missed maybe overcard aggressively on the flop? Sure we could be ahead here but we could also be dominated.