200/400 Badugi hand

[groth911t]

200/400 BOTE at the bellagio, full table.

Folds to the CO, who opens, Button folds, I threebet from SB with a24, Miami John calls from the BB, CO calls, everyone draws 1.

I lead out after catching offsuit paint, John calls, CO raises, call, call. 1, 1, pat.

I catch (a24)9. I c/r, John call, CO threebets. I call, John calls. Everyone stands pat.

Checks to the CO, he bets, I fold, John calls.

The CO is a NL player who seems fairly new to the mix games, but pretty tight in badugi. Miami John seems to know badugi very well.

I think the first two streets are pretty standard (though maybe some wouldn't lead out after bricking the first draw). I'm wondering about after the second draw (where i've heard everything from just c/c/stand pat to four betting), and on the river, where, IMO, i'm hardpressed to have either player beat. I'm wondering what some more experienced badugi players do on both streets. I'll post the winning and losing hands later.

[InWithTheBest]

Despite my inexperience in badugi, i remember the calculations made that the median badugi hand was somwhere around an 87xx or so. In a three way pot it looks like your cooked. Esp with the reads you described. That being said, I dont think i could break as the pot is now huge and you have a decent hand. I may be wrong, but id compare your hand to having 87532 in TDL. With this sort of action your pretty sure your beat but you hand is just too good to make a big mistake in a pot of this size. Looking forward to some people with more experience in badugi to respond.

[*TT*]

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Despite my inexperience in badugi, i remember the calculations made that the median badugi hand was somwhere around an 87xx or so.

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I haven't played Badugi since the WSOP so I might be rusty, I think the median Badugi hand was A239. I think you should call on the river.

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[groth911t]

what range of hands do you give the cutoff and miami john? what range of hands do I have to raise there?

[*TT*]

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what range of hands do you give the cutoff and miami john? what range of hands do I have to raise there?

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Range of hands for John - to be polite, he is rather fishy I was told so he can have almost anything.

Heads up I am value betting a clean 7 or lower, 3 way I guess a clean 6 would get value bet and/or raised, or a dirty 5.

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[groth911t]

From what I saw, John seemed to play ok, but it was towards end of a 15 hour session I was playing, so I might have been mistaken, and I didn't see him play all that many hands. He certainly understood some concepts that other players certainly did not seem to, based on a few convos we had.

But even not worrying about John's hand, what range of hands do I raise with on the turn? What range of hands will he threebet with. And what range of hands can the CO then bet into two players on the river?

I think my raising range against this player is probably a bad 9 or better on the turn, I would think the CO's range for 3betting would be a good 8 or better (assuming a value raise, not snow). My plan was to C/C the river until John patted behind me, that changed my opinion of the CO's range a bit.

FWIW, a Bellagio regular in the mix games (though usually 40/80) told me John has an 87 there every time.

Still would like to hear some more feedback before i post results.

[obi---one]

call the river. you are probably cooked but the pot is laying u some ridiculas odds, and u see some funny stuff in badugi.

btw, whoever says the median hand in badugi is a239 is way off imo.

[Nomar]

after having this hand linger in my head for a couple days, I think I gut it...

I would lead out after you make your 9, this puts John in a tough spot, fearing action might get raised and reraised before it gets back to him, so hes unlikely to tag along (I can see the look he will give you when you make this bet, like wtf are doing type look).

If John made a hand it may get raised and 3 bet before it gets back to you, now you can fold.

If John calls and CO raises, I stand PAT and payoff river..

you put in same 3 big bets, you get to make it to showdown, and you still apply the squeeze presure on MJ.

[groth911t]

It may be a bad habit for badugi, but i've carried over the TD habit of checking blind when oop in a live game and drawing behind. So leading out was not possible at that point, but someone else had suggested the same thing to me.

[*TT*]

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It may be a bad habit for badugi, but i've carried over the TD habit of checking blind when oop in a live game and drawing behind. So leading out was not possible at that point, but someone else had suggested the same thing to me.

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the c/r was correct.

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