commerce 10-20 deep: tricky flop spot w/big draw

[mikech]

just got back from a few days at commerce, only played one hand that i thought was kinda interesting, the stack sizes of the two players behind me make it a little awkward. anyway, laggy kid in mp opens to 100, his friend calls on the button (i've played with both at bellagio before, kid in mp is a good lag, his friend otb is considerably tighter), sb calls, and i call in bb with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

flop J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb checks, i check, mp bets 280, button calls, sb moves in for 1040 total. i have about 20k on the table, mp has me covered, button has about 6.5k total.

call, fold, or raise?

[Get_better_Baris]

i would just call. i want the callers to over call to get as much money in on flop as possible if i checked the flop.

[lapoker17]

i turbomuck. and this really isn't that big a draw.

how did you like commerce?

[pocketjesuits]

Seems like a pretty clear fold for me.

[Post-Oak]

Fold preflop.

Lead flop.

In the situation you find yourself in, I would sometimes fold, but more often make it $4K to go. I wouldn't expect to get called by either of the two other players given the action thus far. If MP calls, things get a little complicated on the turn and it would depend what card hit. It doesn't matter what the button does at this point, because you can't fold against him.

I want to reiterate that checking this flop was really bad. Lead for $350+. I would do this with any strong made hand as well.

[krasserpan]

Your outs must be discounted, because you don't draw to the nuts.
You can still lose, if a club, an 8 or even a Q hits the table.
Furthermore it seems, that everybody at the table has some kind of draw.

=> Fold
After all you are also squeezed.

[donkey]

i dont know why people are saying this isnt really a big draw. looks pretty huge to me. i'm not folding for any amount of chips unless someone shows me the nut flush draw

[Chaoslord]

yeah you have a lot of outs in theory but you cant be sure.

beeing out of position makes this a fold imo, thats why i wouldnt have called preflop in the first place.

if you just coldcall it screams draw and mp might reraise again forcing you to fold or making a bad call with zero implied odds.
reraising is not good either, just let it go.

[krasserpan]

Only the A of clubs gives you the nuts...

[yvesaint]

kid/button = luego/mason?