10/20 Stud HI - 4th Street decision

PoorLawyer · #1 10-09-2007, 05:25 PM

Villain is a complete unknown. He only bet $10.

So of the 3 options, what does one do? Does that option change if he double-bet?

If you picked call and 5th blanks off both players and villain bets again, then what?

If it were a double-bet 4th and you play on, does that mean you are seeing the river?

7 Card Stud High ($10/$20), Ante $1.50, Bring-In $3 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.05 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.35 SB)

Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

TheEye · #2 10-09-2007, 05:35 PM

[Villain is a complete unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

flip a coin?!

I hate those hands, but I would fold if I hadn't caught the 6.

2 clubs are out allready so it would be hard for him to call complete 3rd with 3flush

Brad1970 · #3 10-09-2007, 05:50 PM

Tough spot. My knee jerk reaction is to raise & see if he 3 bets. If he does, you can be fairly sure he has trip J's. I could make a case for calling since your hand is live & he could very easily have jacks up instead.

Since he's an unknown & if you usually play this site, he's probably not a regular stud player. So he literally could have anything.

PoorLawyer · #4 10-09-2007, 05:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tough spot. My knee jerk reaction is to raise & see if he 3 bets. If he does, you can be fairly sure he has trip J's. I could make a case for calling since your hand is live & he could very easily have jacks up instead.

Since he's an unknown & if you usually play this site, he's probably not a regular stud player. So he literally could have anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its full tilt and I have only seen the game going in the last couple days. 3/4 of the players seem to not be regulars from 2/4-5/10 games which I find somewhat odd...people must just stalk and only play when a higher game starts going. don't know why they don't just start the game if they are all staring at the tables waiting for a higher limit to go.

bigredlemon · #5 10-09-2007, 05:45 PM

1. check/call down. kick yourself when he shows you trip jacks
2. single raise him back, c/f 5th, revaluate 6th
3. fold and mutter something about your bad luck

Andy B · #6 10-10-2007, 01:10 AM

Call down. You lose the minimum when he has trips, and win close to the maximum when he doesn't. Well, folding would lose the minimum, but I'm just not doing that against an unknown. He could easily have a three-card straight or flush, pocket Fours, garbage, who knows.

Poker CPA · #7 10-10-2007, 11:57 AM

EZ calldown

PoorLawyer · #8 10-10-2007, 02:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
EZ calldown

[/ QUOTE ]

I was considering a raise, but my reasoning for just calling is that if he just calls my raise, he could be setting me up for a c/r on a bigger street and there is no way for me to know. OTOH, I guess since he is leading the whole way I can take a free card if I want.

Calling seemed safe, but not sure it was correct....would have been easier if I had some 3rd street stats on the guy obviously.

5th came blank and I called again and 6th he check/folded.

Mathew82 · #9 10-10-2007, 02:28 PM

Stud High isn't my best game but I think that folding is best here. He is 2/3s likely to have trips (significant favourite) and 1/3 likely two pair (small favourite).

It is doubtful that he is drawing because of the three clubs are out and the fact that your ace raise and his jack call is likely to drive out the remaining opponents giving less pot odds to hit a flush. The cards that are out seem to indicate that he is not likely to be drawing a straight either.

Again stud high is not my best game but if anyone would like to say why I might be wrong - I am all ears....

PoorLawyer · #10 10-10-2007, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Stud High isn't my best game but I think that folding is best here. He is 2/3s likely to have trips (significant favourite) and 1/3 likely two pair (small favourite).

It is doubtful that he is drawing because of the three clubs are out and the fact that your ace raise and his jack call is likely to drive out the remaining opponents giving less pot odds to hit a flush. The cards that are out seem to indicate that he is not likely to be drawing a straight either.

Again stud high is not my best game but if anyone would like to say why I might be wrong - I am all ears....

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the thinking, but don't neccesarily agree with the 2/3 to 1/3 numbers. There are many hands he can have. It is 2 clubs out as the 3rd one is his, so I think it is reasonably likely for a flush draw to call 3rd, as well as any other big pair that isn't jacks.

If he does have jacks, he could be stringing me along with a small bet on 4th, but that is something you usually only see in lower limit games (of which I know he isn't a regular on, at least at this site). Most would bet big and just hope to be done with the hand whether they have trips or not.

Again, this is an unknown villain, but a lot of 10/20 and up players would raise a big pair here, either to get it heads up, or because they think I am light; they would not just call along and let others in.

I don't quite understand this statement: "It is doubtful that he is drawing because of the three clubs are out and the fact that your ace raise and his jack call is likely to drive out the remaining opponents giving less pot odds to hit a flush."
I would think it is the opposite and calling is exactly what you do with a flush draw - you want players in so you have odds to draw so just call to encourage others to come along.

All that being said, I agree I am either way behind or way ahead and one of us is very likely drawing to 4 outs (though I can make the bigger hand if we both hit). I just don't think I'm ready to fold this hand.