My friend got into big trouble

[DespotInExile]

One year ago, a guy I knew looked like this:

Top notch undergrad education. Law degree from a top-5 school. Six-figure salary. Tons of disposable income. New car, lots of toys. Bought a condo.

Then he discovered baby NL, and eventually, PLO. Now he looks like this:

Living with his parents. Sold all of his toys. Fired from two jobs. Lost $75k from January through May 2006. Was on the book with a loanshark whose nickname is "hitman."

Incredible.

[JohnnyHumongous]

Pretty sick. Just goes to show that the money does indeed come from somewhere. Although we often hope that our opponents can afford the losses, it's often the case that they really can't and are ensuring their financial peril. This is a fact I often forget/ignore while playing. Should I/we feel guilty? At the end of the day I guess not... it's a tough world baby girl. If not for poker the guy might have got his gambling fix from penny stocks or forex. All in all though, I feel better when I assume my opponents ran up their cash at lower limits and are just donking off profits...

[gummy d]

Much of life is a hussle and that is a nice way of putting it. Poker, if it is a legit fair game it is one of the levelest playing fields out there. When people meet there they are both at risk. You can talk about skill and calculating the odds and so forth but when it comes down to it it's all about self-control. The people who are having second doubts about poker and the way it affects some people's lives tend to be overlooking the fact that evertime they sit at a table they could loose. They could go on tilt. They probably, if they play much at all, have a gambling addiction albeit mild. The biggest names in the game all have gambling addictions but they have obviously learned to control them and beat the game. The thing i'm curious about is at what point do players (if there are any) play not because they are hooked on the game but soley as a source of income. I've read a few posts where people who play for a living stated that they hate to play. They more or less hate the game but it is how they make there living.
Poker like life is about forming good habits and making small infinitesimal decisions. It's really not about whether you make an amazing all in call with bottom pair on the river but how often your still in there with that hand on the river....
Life is hard people have problems. Is a therapists charging $200 hour exploitive-
you bet.

[compactstu]

Well, of course all online players are "winners". More winners causes more sites to open their doors. Really the most forgotten thing for any upcoming pro is how he or she is able to deal with the stress when you lose for a period of time.

Those people who are extremely happy with their winnings are the first ones throwing all kind of furniture when they start losing. Feeling is a bit dangerous whenever it hits your personal traumas. You better be aware of who you are before becoming a pro.

[JJNJustin]

That'll teach him not to have a successful education and job!

-J

[pizarro1]

[ QUOTE ]
One year ago, a guy I knew looked like this:

Top notch undergrad education. Law degree from a top-5 school. Six-figure salary. Tons of disposable income. New car, lots of toys. Bought a condo.

Then he discovered baby NL, and eventually, PLO. Now he looks like this:

Living with his parents. Sold all of his toys. Fired from two jobs. Lost $75k from January through May 2006. Was on the book with a loanshark whose nickname is "hitman."

Incredible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact reason why I'm considering quitting poker. I never really realised where all the money came from when you win with poker, but this is exactly an example where I do not want to get my money from. I don't play high stakes, so I'm not playing for big cash like that, but I do play for what would seem a fair amount for most non poker playing people. After a nice tilt-mode of me this week I managed to cut my overall figure down to 450 only, I'm a recreational player and this seems the right time to quit for me. I maybe sound like a douche, maybe I will change my mind over time but right now I feel unethical about playing poker.

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One year ago, a guy I knew looked like this:

Top notch undergrad education. Law degree from a top-5 school. Six-figure salary. Tons of disposable income. New car, lots of toys. Bought a condo.

Then he discovered baby NL, and eventually, PLO. Now he looks like this:

Living with his parents. Sold all of his toys. Fired from two jobs. Lost $75k from January through May 2006. Was on the book with a loanshark whose nickname is "hitman."

Incredible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact reason why I'm considering quitting poker. I never really realised where all the money came from when you win with poker, but this is exactly an example where I do not want to get my money from. I don't play high stakes, so I'm not playing for big cash like that, but I do play for what would seem a fair amount for most non poker playing people. After a nice tilt-mode of me this week I managed to cut my overall figure down to 450 only, I'm a recreational player and this seems the right time to quit for me. I maybe sound like a douche, maybe I will change my mind over time but right now I feel unethical about playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the thing though, just as many people get ruined by casino poker, casino slots, casino blackjack, lottery tickets, horsetrack betting etc. etc. etc. as online poker. People gamble, that's all there is to it, and often they gamble to ruin. The casinos don't feel guilty, why should guys like you or I who aren't worth billions and 'need' the money more feel different?

[pizarro1]

What you say might be true Jonhnny, but that doesn't change the fact that when you play poker you're actually contributing to the degeneration of those people. You're right that the same goes for the casinos, but at least that's not because of my doings. Note that I'm ofcourse overexaggerating because it doesn't make a jack difference whether you and I are playing or not, those people would still lose money. Not more not less, but it's just that I feel somewhat responsible for that when I play poker.

[SFBAY23]

[ QUOTE ]
What you say might be true Jonhnny, but that doesn't change the fact that when you play poker you're actually contributing to the degeneration of those people. You're right that the same goes for the casinos, but at least that's not because of my doings. Note that I'm ofcourse overexaggerating because it doesn't make a jack difference whether you and I are playing or not, those people would still lose money. Not more not less, but it's just that I feel somewhat responsible for that when I play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree somewhat... difficult debate though. Perhaps the answers should be directed more towards prevention/intervention with the extreme problem gamblers. I don't feel bad at all about taking money from players that just really suck and are there to have a fun time and the money is not a big deal to them (many of the players where I play) but I see where you are coming from regarding taking money from the guy that is ultratilting and borrowing money to try and get out of debt and obviously has a major problem. That can be hard.

F

[kimchi]

[ QUOTE ]
but that doesn't change the fact that when you play poker you're actually contributing to the degeneration of those people.

[/ QUOTE ]

-when you have a beer you contribute to the profits of alcohol suppliers
-when you vote Republican you contribute to global instability
-when you get in your car you contribute to global warming
-when you buy the cheapest food, you contribute to the degredation of global farmland
-when you eat in McDonald's you contribute to the destruction of the Amazon forests.

The most difficult part of life is the choice.

You make your own choice and live with the consequences.

If you stop playing poker because you fear for the well-being of degenerate gamblers, then good for you. Even though your actions may be futile, your motives are not.

And sometimes that's all that matters.