Q-high flush on straight flush board

[therockofgibraltar]

Villain 50/22/4 after 150 hands.

You guys play differently?

Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $229.45
SB: $279.36
Hero (BB): $338.45
UTG: $176
CO: $704.87

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG folds, CO calls $2, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $9</font>, CO calls $7

Flop: ($19) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $12</font>, CO calls $12

Turn: ($43) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $20</font>, CO calls $20

River: ($83) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $40</font>, Hero calls $40

[Unknown Soldier]

block river, if you're checking you're folding, but i think theres a little value you can squeeze out here

[viper930]

make it 13 pre

close to pot on the flop

blocking the river is fine but c/c is also fine cause you'll often get him to bluff with nonflush hands

[Shes92]

i bet bigger on flop and i prefer either a check on the turn or a bigger bet. I guess you were betting less than half the pot so you could get away from this hand cheaply if reraised which may be ok but it may indicate weakness to some villains (may indicate strenght to others) but more importantly I dont like to vary my bet sizing too much based on the strenght of my hand so I dont really see a reason to bet less than half the pot.

[therockofgibraltar]

[ QUOTE ]
block river, if you're checking you're folding, but i think theres a little value you can squeeze out here

[/ QUOTE ]

many many many times I have read: either b/f river or c/f DONT c/c. Like in this hand but tons of other hands too. Why c/c sucks? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[viper930]

against a guy like this it doesnt imo.

[Unknown Soldier]

oh sorry misread reads. yeah c/c is ok i guess, but id have to fold if he bet too much can't fgold given these odds. i still think betting is better. basically betting &gt; c/c because his calling range &gt; betting range in this spot.

[therockofgibraltar]

[ QUOTE ]
basically betting &gt; c/c because his calling range &gt; betting range in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah, yea, makes perfect sense. I do c/c on the river quite a bit (well, not too much tho). Must think more when playing.

Generally I c/c against aggros

[Rainclouds]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
basically betting &gt; c/c because his calling range &gt; betting range in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah, yea, makes perfect sense. I do c/c on the river quite a bit (well, not too much tho). Must think more when playing.

Generally I c/c against aggros

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I also generally c/c against aggros, but not in this hand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

He called a flop and a turn bet on those boards (he did not raise you!) For someone with an AF of 4, these calls look strong to me. River bet size is also a typical value bet size, trying to get value from something like a Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I fold there. If he had a set or 2 pair trying to boat up he would probably have checked behind I think. If it's some multilevel float combo move, credit to villain.

[ValarMorghulis]

[ QUOTE ]

many many many times I have read: either b/f river or c/f DONT c/c. Like in this hand but tons of other hands too. Why c/c sucks? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a common leak to have a medium strength hand and want to go to showdown (you don't want to face a raise if you bet) so you c/call.

However, most villains will check behind weak hands with showdown value. So, if no obvious draw missed and villain isn't too aggro then your best choices are obviously bet/fold or check/fold. By c/calling you allow villain to value bet his best hands and check behind with his worst hands, which is the worse of both world for you. (Good high stakes players may value bet thinner than they call, I guess.)

On the other hand, when a load of draws miss, c/call is normally much better than bet/fold or c/fold.

This is where handreading comes in.

In this case, villain called a bet on the turn so is likely to have some kind of showdownable hand. There're no draws he can have. So he'll probably check behind his weak showdown hands and bet his A/K high flushes and straight flushes. Only if villain is some kind of crazy aggro (which he could be from his stats) would I consider c/call.