Fun w/ A5s

[The Dude]

Bellagio 30-60. BB and limper are both very loose, passive, and bad. SB tries his best to be a good player but isn't. He isn't terrible postflop, but he slowplays and bluffs in ways that seem obvious to me.

Preflop:
EP limps, folded to The Dude who raises in the CO w/ A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Button folds, SB and BB call, limper calls.

Flop: (8 SBs) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 Players)</font>
Checked to The Dude who bets, SB calls, BB folds, limper calls.

Turn: (5.5 BBs) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 Players)</font>
Checked to The Dude who bets, SB raises, limper folds. The Dude decides calling down is best.

River: (9.5 BBs) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 Players)</font>
SB bets. The Dude considers folding now, but ends up calling.

Comments?

[cgrohman]

I fold the river. Other than that it seems fairly standard.

[andyfox]

Other than that? That's a pretty big "other," since there's $630 in the pot when The Dude made his river decision.

The Dude says this guys bluffs are "obvious" to him, so our judgment on what the guy is doing can't be as accurate as his. I'd almost prefer a river raise than a call down just in case the guy's got a littlt bit of something, and considering that the guy is trying to play good (which, in Vegas, often means making a "good" laydown), but I guess The Dude is putting him on a flush draw.

[n.s.]

I'd just check the turn. I don't think that a bet will pick it up enough to compensate for the times that you have to pay 2 bets to draw to your many outs. The six pairing seems like it is going to encourage calls from the other two players.

If you think that A-high no kicker is going to win often enough to call the river, then that's all the more reason to just check the turn, since you'll sometimes win UI. Otherwise, I agree with Andy that you should pop the river in case he's got something like A8 (assuming you trust your read - I'd usually just fold).

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]

If you think that A-high no kicker is going to win often enough to call the river, then that's all the more reason to just check the turn, since you'll sometimes win UI. Otherwise, I agree with Andy that you should pop the river in case he's got something like A8 (assuming you trust your read - I'd usually just fold).

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate popping this river. A8 shouldn't be too much of his sb defending range. The "just in case" play is so spewy in general. Unless the pot is ginormous, I think it's basically always wrong to resteal with a bluffcatcher hand. Also, raising on a blankish river will look so fishy that he will look you up with 99 or whatever soooooo often.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd just check the turn. I don't think that a bet will pick it up enough to compensate for the times that you have to pay 2 bets to draw to your many outs. The six pairing seems like it is going to encourage calls from the other two players.

If you think that A-high no kicker is going to win often enough to call the river, then that's all the more reason to just check the turn, since you'll sometimes win UI. Otherwise, I agree with Andy that you should pop the river in case he's got something like A8 (assuming you trust your read - I'd usually just fold).

[/ QUOTE ]

i think people saying to check the turn are being a bit results oriented. aside from having a huge draw, the dude is going to have the best hand on the turn a significant amount of the time.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd just check the turn. I don't think that a bet will pick it up enough to compensate for the times that you have to pay 2 bets to draw to your many outs. The six pairing seems like it is going to encourage calls from the other two players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? I didn't get check-raised on the flop, which means my opponents will have hands like JT and K9 much more often than a pair. The 6, aside from an A or a 4 is a pretty good card for me, even without the flush draw. Why would I check and give them a free card? I have no reason to think I'm behind here.

[cgrohman]

And even if you are behind you have a great draw. I never check this turn.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd just check the turn. I don't think that a bet will pick it up enough to compensate for the times that you have to pay 2 bets to draw to your many outs. The six pairing seems like it is going to encourage calls from the other two players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? I didn't get check-raised on the flop, which means my opponents will have hands like JT and K9 much more often than a pair. The 6, aside from an A or a 4 is a pretty good card for me, even without the flush draw. Why would I check and give them a free card? I have no reason to think I'm behind here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you described the limper as "very loose, passive, and bad", which makes me think that he would often check-call a pair on the flop. The read on the SB is less specific, but I also thought that he might check-call the flop, especially if he flopped a big hand (you said he makes some bad slowplays). Finally, while I agree that you are often still good, your flush draw means that an opponent with overcards might only have 4 outs to draw out on you, so you aren't necessarily giving up on the hand if you don't improve on the river.

That was my thinking, anyways. The more I think about it, though, getting your opponents to fold a culmative 8-12 outs is pretty important, so a bet is probably best after all.

[Dagger78]

I can't call on the river unless you've seen the SB CR bluff this turn before. You're never good here.

I like the preflop ISO raise, I like both the flop and turn bets since these seems like the type of players who will peel two random high cards on the flop then fold the turn.