WCCOP Razz - defend against a LAG

[*TT*]

LAG likes to keep firing, he sees his board is better, he cannot read hands. Stack sizes are critical to the discussion. On 4th my 3-card hand is beating his 2 or 3-card hand often enough that I peel - too loose with stacks this size? On 5th if I raise he is going all in anyway because I doubt he can fold his bluff so I opt to just call to make sure he stays in when I am an equity favorite, his money is going in on 6th anyway.

I hope this hand develops a good discussion, many spots where i could have played differently. I am still kinda- new to tournys, I keep getting deep but there might be playing situations like this sub-optimally.

Tournament - Razz - Level X (400/800), Ante 80, Bring-In 120 (converter)

Seat 1: 11,785
Seat 2: 5,763
Seat 3: 2,096
Seat 4: 24,720
Hero: 3,138
Seat 6: 13,918
Seat 7: 5,545
Seat 8: 8,864

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.60 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (2.80 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.80 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets 416 and is all-in
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls

[2461Badugi]

The only remotely interesting question is the steal defense, and if you're confident in your read then there you go. Fourth and on are perfect.

[betgo]

I think the steal defense is awful. Your cards are really dead, you don't have two wheel cards, and the guy raised into a 7 as well as the bringin.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the steal defense is awful. Your cards are really dead, you don't have two wheel cards, and the guy raised into a 7 as well as the bringin.

[/ QUOTE ]

betgo - my 6 is lower than his hole-card range. He would open with (KK)5.

But with that said, I hear ya. The downside of my defense is that I am binding myself into the hand on 4th if we catch good, even though I might be an equity fav vs his range is it worth the risk?

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
even though I might be an equity fav vs his range is it worth the risk?

[/ QUOTE ]

In level X with a sub-average stack I don't think there's much question. Gotta gamble sometime.

Did you somehow get your Stars sn changed, or am I blind?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
even though I might be an equity fav vs his range is it worth the risk?

[/ QUOTE ]

In level X with a sub-average stack I don't think there's much question. Gotta gamble sometime.

Did you somehow get your Stars sn changed, or am I blind?

[/ QUOTE ]

I changed all my screennames, nobody knows who I am now. I like anonymity.

[dogsballs]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the steal defense is awful. Your cards are really dead,

[/ QUOTE ]

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
The only remotely interesting question is the steal defense, and if you're confident in your read then there you go. Fourth and on are perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone help me with some meta-game considerations? Hero has ~40 antes and 4 BBs left. Is the idea of a steal defense have some triggering mechanism based on stack size?

What kind of stats would villain need in order to place (KK)5 in his range?

I don't understand the bit about checking 5th.

But what I really don't understand is the bit about defending the bring-in; when, where and why it's used.

[*TT*]

I've had some interesting conversations with friends after reading this thread. I went from thinking I made a huge mistake calling on 4th to thinking its so marginally close that calling isn't bad. One tourny pro who is an excellent shorthanded limit Hold'em player thinks I am nuts now and therefore I must suck at poker, another said at first look he would have folded but after seeing the equity analysis he calls 3rd to re-evaluate on 4th (and he is a fantastic tourny player). Most everyone seems to like how I played 4th street an onwards. To invest 2/3 of a SB to see if your an equity fav on 4th vs an opponent who will keep firing because thats what he always does, it might be a good opportunity to double up when I am so short stacked.

I have to say this might be the most interesting hand i have played all month, and when i posted it I didn't even realize how interesting it would become. Mathematically the call is correct in a cash game (which in hindsight kind of surprises me since I didn't realize how dead my outs were)... I now think the jury is still out in a tourny.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
I've had some interesting conversations with friends after reading this thread. I went from thinking I made a huge mistake calling on 4th to thinking its so marginally close that calling isn't bad. One tourny pro who is an excellent shorthanded limit Hold'em player thinks I am nuts now and therefore I must suck at poker, another said at first look he would have folded but after seeing the equity analysis he calls 3rd to re-evaluate on 4th (and he is a fantastic tourny player). Most everyone seems to like how I played 4th street an onwards. To invest 2/3 of a SB to see if your an equity fav on 4th vs an opponent who will keep firing because thats what he always does, it might be a good opportunity to double up when I am so short stacked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Next time you should just listen to me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Fourth isn't close, though. Either calling on third is a big mistake, or folding fourth is.