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#1
05-09-2007, 05:09 PM
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... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
Ok, it's my first. I'd say there are some at least remotely interesting spots in it and. At any rate: Go easy on me...
The table had filled up just like 3 orbits ago or so and was currently in the process of tightening down to the usual Crypto standard of 20/9 or so. The cast: Loose-passive in different shades of grey... SB: 33/17.5/0.7 Though he appeared somewhat passive, he didn't stand out for calling down a lot of trash hands. No calling station by any standard, just passive postflop with the accomanying plays that are typical for this brand (donks instead of c/r etc.) His wtsd was 28% (not that I look at this during play time, but just to back up my read of him not being a calling station by some figures... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) For the small sample of hands I had on him, he has an Attmpt-to-steal of 75% and a Fold-BB-to-steal of 0%. BB: Similar stats of 33/8/0.5 In a previous hand where I opened in UTG+2, he coldcalled in MP2 and called down with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on a K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] board (I bet each street and took it with KQs). He's more of a calling station and running pretty hot. No idea how aggressively he defends his blinds. UTG: Total fish. Runs by the stats of 76/4/0.5 and has a Wtsd of 70%+. For the last few orbits I've been on this table, he's just gotten hammered by BB who seemingly hits every board against him and takes him down time and again. He's not steaming though (at least from what I can tell) - he just keeps calling. Btn: Short guest appearance. I don't know how he survives at this level (or how he endures the boredom), but he's playing a 12/2/0.8 style. Cryptologic Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $2/$4 10 players Converter Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG calls, 5 folds, Hero ??? 
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#2
05-09-2007, 05:13 PM
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Re: ... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
33/17 seems pretty laggy to me
i think raise to iso is better here than limp. it's a better multiway than hu hand but we want to get hu with the bad player with a better-than-average hand and if nothing else we might take it down with a cbet if we both miss the flop. limping and letting the blinds come in with j4, q7, k3 or a2 or whatever, that have some outs against us, can't be right. also this way we can buy the button. cliffs notes: isoraise in position and ship the dead money in the pot.
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#3
05-09-2007, 05:20 PM
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Re: ... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
[ QUOTE ]
33/17 seems pretty laggy to me [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, agree, and it might be that with more hands, his AF changes significantly. At playing time however, I found his .8 AF to be the most noteworthy of his stats. Also, there definitely IS this sort of player who have some decent pre stats and play quite weakish post. That's my take on him at this point, anyway.
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#4
05-09-2007, 05:57 PM
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Re: ... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
[ QUOTE ]
33/17 seems pretty laggy to me i think raise to iso is better here than limp. it's a better multiway than hu hand but we want to get hu with the bad player with a better-than-average hand and if nothing else we might take it down with a cbet if we both miss the flop. limping and letting the blinds come in with j4, q7, k3 or a2 or whatever, that have some outs against us, can't be right. also this way we can buy the button. cliffs notes: isoraise in position and ship the dead money in the pot. [/ QUOTE ] UTG is a fish that plays any two cards. Button's a bot. SB is a lag that never folds during a blind steal, and BB is a loose-passive-calling station, who's bound to call when he sees at least 3 other people in the hand, and its only one bet to him. I can't see how raising can be +EV here. You're almost never ahead of their collective holdings. I guess if you really want to play this hand you can call. Personally I'd wait for a better hand. The thing is, whenever I see lags, or loosy-goosy calling stations sitting in the SB and BB, my first reaction is to tighten up my stealing range. Its mostly the tight ones you can take advantage of. I don't think its reasonable for us to expect T9s to come out on top when trying to steal the blinds, take position, AND isolate a bad ep limper. Just my 1 bb (at 1c/2c limits)...
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#6
05-09-2007, 06:08 PM
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Re: ... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
pf: call, raise, fold.
edit: oops i read that as fold and 5 calls. im fine folding this hand.
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#7
05-09-2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: ... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
[ QUOTE ]
Frito, Do the same calc HU w/ UTG. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I did. You're losing (a bit). That's likely offset by the dead money in the pot, but I don't think it maxes out our EV: Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 6,362,921,664 games 0.005 secs 1,272,584,332,800 games/sec Board: Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 49.470% 47.93% 01.54% 3049915324 97834022.00 { T9s } Hand 1: 50.530% 48.99% 01.54% 3117338296 97834022.00 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 83s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T6o+, 96o+, 85o+, 75o+, 65o } (disclaimer: forgot to exclude the premiums for UTG in my first calcs, so I left them in here as well) So that prolly means I'm breaking even or maybe even a very slight fav. (because of the premiums I included). Still, what the calcs show, I guess, is that limping is better as (a) I have a bigger edge to begin with (clearly profitable vs. barely or only-because-of-the-blind-money profitable) (b) I will have a clearly defined hand that's very easy to play postflop (often...) So, anyway, I called...
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#8
05-09-2007, 06:28 PM
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Flop: 3d, 4h, Tc
Cryptologic
Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $2/$4 10 players Converter Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG calls, 5 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB checks. Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players) SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero ???
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#9
05-09-2007, 05:22 PM
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Re: ... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
I'm a nit at heart, so my default would be to just fold here. Although, I raise JTs, so I guess it's close. Even with SB being rather likely to cold call, I still prefer a raise over a call to buy the button and perhaps see a free turn if needed.
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#10
05-09-2007, 05:30 PM
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Re: ... and here comes the next... (Playalong)
Raising is pretty bad here, guys. Sure, you want to play w/ a bad player and take his money. However, your hand his a dog to his range. Your implied odds are good, though, esp. if the blinds come, too. You don't want them to fold, because there presence will turn your equity deficit into an equity edge.
Raise hands that have showdown value, but not this hand. I'd raise K9o here, maybe Q9o and K7o if the blinds were tighter. You don't have enough high card strength/showdown value here to warrant isolation.
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