($60 Turbo) ryanghall inspired me to post this JJ

durron597 · #1 11-07-2006, 10:07 AM

Villian was one of the very few clueful lags I see in SnGs. I'm not sure his style was the best but I thought he was playing very well for an aggro player.

edit: I think there are 3 reasonable lines here. please try to comment on each of them in your replies:

1) call pre, c/c, c/c, c/f; cons to this: he may put us on OESD that whiffed and try to push us off the best hand on river with ace high
2) call pre, c/r flop, fold to allin; cons to this: if he just calls what are you doing oop on the turn?
3) reraise pre, fold to allin: cons to this: we sometimes fold the best hand to AK or AQ or TT, also what do we do if he just calls on this board? stick it in?

edit2: another line:

4) lead flop, fold to a raise. question: what's turn plan if called?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

MP (t652)
Button (t1290)
SB (t1715)
Hero (t4268)
UTG (t5575)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t300, 2 folds, SB calls t250, Hero calls t200.

Flop: (t900) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets t600, SB folds, Hero calls t600.

Turn: (t2100) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets t1000, Hero calls t1000.

River: (t4100) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks expecting a check behind, but planning to fold.

bennies · #2 11-07-2006, 10:32 AM

Interesting hand, I'll just comment on the river.

I think a clueful villain will bet/push the river if he has a house, or, as a bluff if he has nothing (trying to get Hero to fold a T, 99 or JJ). It's probably close, but I think villain will be bluffing often enough that Hero should call the river, despite putting his stack on the line.

ManChild · #3 11-07-2006, 11:35 AM

curious, why not raise the flop, or moreso shove the turn?

dave1mo · #4 11-07-2006, 11:37 AM

I raise the flop. Stack sizes make this hand soooo friggin awkward though.

speedyg · #5 11-07-2006, 11:40 AM

I'm c/r the flop and holding my breath if this guy is truly LAG.

Are you just calling the flop bet because villian bet the flop into you and the short stack sb?

Snarf · #6 11-07-2006, 11:47 AM

D,

It appears that you believe your overpair is good preflop. (That he doesn't have QQ+.)

Why not just shove preflop? Would he call AK/AQ?

Even if not...I can't decide - tho I'm not sure I like the line for the hand given the growing pot size and stack sizes.

I like the 'value' line, tho...I dunno...

I'm gonna think on it...

dave1mo · #7 11-07-2006, 11:48 AM

Shove 4k into a 1k pot with the big stack in it?

Snarf · #8 11-07-2006, 11:54 AM

D,

Would you also shutdown if the river was a A, K or Q?

What if its a 9? or 6?

I think I like the hand up until the turn. Too many scare cards on the river, and really you probably have the best hand at that point often enough.

I think the turn - you either have to fold, or if you're going to check into him 'for value' you need to c/r AI.

The villian could put you on OESD and bet the turn with a lot of air here, IMHO and you're probably good moresothan not.

Tho I can see/understand not wanting to broke on the hand and thus cold-calling the turn - but ... yeah...I just dunno man.

I'm still not sure, but I think you have to make up your mind on the turn and play accordingly there.

ir0nphist · #9 11-07-2006, 12:00 PM

Interesting hand due to stack sizes & LAG bigstack.

I don't really like the c/c, c/c, c/f line on a coordinated board like this. It makes it too easy for a good LAG player to keep firing. He may feel like there's too good of a chance you're calling with the oesd. I would c/r the flop to 1600, then fold to a push. I don't think villain will push a worse hand unless he has the oesd himself. Folding to villain's push would leave you in 2nd with almost 2400 and 3 shorties at 1400 and less.

Snarf · #10 11-07-2006, 12:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting hand due to stack sizes & LAG bigstack.

I don't really like the c/c, c/c, c/f line on a coordinated board like this. It makes it too easy for a good LAG player to keep firing. He may feel like there's too good of a chance you're calling with the oesd. I would c/r the flop to 1600, then fold to a push. I don't think villain will push a worse hand unless he has the oesd himself. Folding to villain's push would leave you in 2nd with almost 2400 and 3 shorties at 1400 and less.

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree

you're giving villian 3:1 on the call, and I think the move is also faily transparant. A clueful LAG would see through this and overshove A9, K9, maybe even more. (air, etc...)