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#1
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TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
What's everyone do here? I used to just call a lot and see if the raiser was willing to cap but lately I've just been folding unless I know the raisers(especially the 3bettor) to be an idiot.
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#2
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
At full tables when the raises came from EP/MP, my default was to fold.
Does this situation really come up for you much at short tables? I guess if the raise and 3-bet came from the first two positions and the players in question were not LAGs I would think about dumping it. But I don't know what's best. Get any closer to steal territory, though, and I don't think I would let it go, unless I knew the 3-bettor to be a total rock or a very passive preflop player. |
#3
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
capcapcapcapcapcapcapcacpacap
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#4
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
in 6max? i cap unless the guy is a total rock.
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#5
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
in 6 max almost always cap, if its 3 bet cold to you at a full table from early players the +EV play would be to fold. It also depends on how strong you are postflop as well
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#6
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
if you can read all opponents then def cap, if you have trouble when overcards hit then maybe folding could be a better option.
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#7
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
My standard was to just call, have a 3 or 4 way pot, have the board be an ace, fold the flop, watch my T or J hit on the turn, rationalize it, watch some monkey win with 99 UI and move on.
I think capping is best with JJ. TT is either a cap or a fold depending on who the 3 better is. If he's not a rock, I would cap. |
#8
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
yeah it depends on the opponents and positions a bit but if the 3bettor has a somewhat normal 6max 3betting range (ie wouldnt just call with AQo 99+) its a cap for me.
make that a CO raise, Button 3bet or CO or button raise and sb 3bet its a very easy cap with either. If the original raiser has a wide opening range and a very small capping range ie QQ+ not even AKo or AQs usually i ll just call to get that extra info though. |
#9
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
JJ is a better hand than AKo. TT is not. TT is not a capping hand and folding is not bad. In position is better than OOP. CC from the blinds is an option, especially with TT.
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls. Flop: (16 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Button calls, BB calls. Turn: (12.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Button calls $2.50 (All-In), BB calls. River: (14.91 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font> BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, BB folds. Final Pot: 15.91 BB Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF"> UTG has Qh Qd (one pair, queens). Button has Ac Kd (high card, ace). Outcome: UTG wins 15.91 BB. </font> Remember if you don't cap it will often getted capped anyway. It might be useful to see who, if anyone, does that. I found a couple of hands where I make the mistake of capping with TT instead of letting QQ or AA cap it, but they're Cryptologic and there is no convertor that works for them and I don't feel like doing them manually. |
#10
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Re: TT and JJ facing 3bets cold
[ QUOTE ]
Remember if you don't cap it will often getted capped anyway. It might be useful to see who, if anyone, does that. [/ QUOTE ] how often it gets capped anyways depends on the pfr's opening range vs his capping range. Since many raise 66+ utg and A9o KJo QJs ect and most of them only cap JJ+ and AKs or AKo its much much more often not getting capped (and if u dont know that much about their opening range and capping range u really haven't done urself that much of a favor just calling trying to get more info but some sure). And typically the only one with a chance to cap besides urself is the opener if ur in the blind so I dont really get the see "who" caps part of ur statement. If in the sb, BB cold calling a cap gives almost as much info as if u call and he caps. Coming up with examples of hand histories where it worked out better for u by not capping is also pretty ludicris, unnecessary and really proves nothing. You could do the same thing for JJ QQ or KK for that matter after hundreds of thousands of hands, and you could also probably come up with a million examples where you passed up skylansky bucks by not capping that are more valuable IMO than the considerations pushing us towards not capping (added info on the opener and not gaining initiative). This is completely unsubstantiated but I feel like in these multiway pots I really dont think its that much harder to get away from TT when ur beat cuz u cap. In ur example if u capped sure maybe AK wouldnt have raised and u would have called down but chances are ur ending up losing the same number of bets postflop u would have anyways most of the time whether u cap or not(like u would have here if BTN didnt decide to raise the flop). I've done nothing here to prove we should cap just wanted to point out some flaws in ur proof about why we shouldn't cap TT here. |
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