What are the implied odds of a wired pair in 7 stud hi?

[MadScientist]

If you have a little pair, say 6's in the hole in 7 stud hi, what is the implied odds of it for making trips or better?

I am trying to judge how many bets one can call cold on third street.
I am new to the game.

Thanks for your help.

[WhiteWolf]

Very low, don't call raises on 3rd. Remember you get the cards one at a time in 7 card stud, not 3 at a time like on the flop in hold'em, so the odds against hitting live trips is around 20-1 against on the next card.

Check out the stud forum for more advice.

[phish]

If you're asking this questions, odds are you're playing lower stakes stud which have a relatively small ante. In those games, you should never call a raise with a small pair.

In high ante stud games, it may be right sometimes to reraise with a small pair if your kicker is bigger than his door card.

[Dromar]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're asking this questions, odds are you're playing lower stakes stud which have a relatively small ante. In those games, you should never call a raise with a small pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only that, you should consider folding really low pairs even if it's not raised, unless conditions are really favorable. The bottom pairs (22-55, and maybe 66) are very susceptible to being beaten by a higher set by the end.

[AncientPC]

Assume 10 player table and your outs are live, you can see 3 cards in your hand, and 9 other cards. 2/(52-13) = 2/39.

[MadScientist]

I did not ask what the odds of drawing to trips on fourth street were? Rather I wanted to know what the IMPLIED ODDS were since you can win a very large pot if you make trips and two pair can take it down in the right situation. Also, against passive players that will call down to the end while drawing dead, it is extremely profitable.

Outside of playing many hands and empirically determining it, does some one know what the implied odds are?

Thanks.

[damaniac]

Implied odds just aren't that exact. You need to be able to estimate what type of hands the other players are likely to have (the better but worse than your trips hands they have the better, they'll put in more money), how aggressive/passive they are (lags would be the best, tight-passive the worst), and how much and how often you'll lose (even if it is only a bit, you'll generally drop a ton of bets when you hit a solid hand and lose, depending). So there isn't a simple calculation you can do, if that's what you're looking for.

[AncientPC]

What he said, there is no easy calculation for implied odds since it is determined by table and board texture. The same thing applies to fold equity.

[schroedy]

You might also note that in 7 stud, high only, more than in any other game, the critical question is "what does my opponent think I have?"

Kind of hard for me to see what kind of hand wired 6's can make and what kind of board can show that will allow the opponent to make sense of a lot of money going in the pot, meanwhile getting the opponent to call thinking he has a better hand, and at the end of the day the trips 6's (or even boat) is actually the best hand.

If you have a board that looks like a straight or flush, he is only going to be putting in a lot of money with a better boat is what I am saying. If your board looks like garbage, he is going to realize what's up pretty quickly (unless he's a total dolt) and slow down too.

The play works better with a little higher pair in the box, especially if it looks like you are working on a middle level straight.

[WhiteWolf]

[ QUOTE ]
I did not ask what the odds of drawing to trips on fourth street were? Rather I wanted to know what the IMPLIED ODDS were since you can win a very large pot if you make trips and two pair can take it down in the right situation. Also, against passive players that will call down to the end while drawing dead, it is extremely profitable.

Outside of playing many hands and empirically determining it, does some one know what the implied odds are?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like others have said, you cannot calculate implied odds, you can only estimate them. However, the starting point for estimating implied odds is the immediate odds of hitting your hand. If you're getting 4:1 for just the bring-in, your 20-1 long shot only has to make up 16 bring-ins to be profitable. However, if you're getting 4:1 for a full bet on third street, you now have to make up 16 full bets. And if you're getting 4:1 for 2 full bets, you are now faced with the task of making up 32 full bets on the later streets. Understanding how much of a speculative hand small wired pairs are is key to understanding under what conditions you can take a shot with them.