Loyalty before honor

[hyde]

You see it in high schools( don't be a snitch)
You see it in police force ( the blue wall of silence)
You see it the work force ( go along to get along)
You see it in Military Acadamies ( rape, and the hand slap)
You see it in the Armed forces (the old boys network)
You see it in religion ( Boston child abuse reaction of protecting the institution first, may Bernard Law rot in hell!)
You see it in politics (the White house speaks proudly of this)

Shouldn't a strong society view honor first, then loyalty.

[madnak]

Loyalty is honor.

People have different priorities. I value my friends above law and order. I value my freedom above my country. I value the respect and fair treatment of others above loyalty to any organization. I value my close family over even the basic rights of others.

Each of these issues is worthy of individual consideration - I don't think it's fair to lump them all together.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
I value my friends above law and order. I value my freedom above my country. I value the respect and fair treatment of others above loyalty to any organization. I value my close family over even the basic rights of others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Solving the above set of inequalities, and simplifying for E=H, while also accepting that D is an F, we get that you value your freedom, your family and your friends above your country.

Big deal! What I truly wanna know is the rankings of freedom, family and friends for you...

[madnak]

Probably in that order. Maybe family, freedom, friends, but probably in the order you suggested.

[cambraceres]

Lyslty is an easy to understand word. Honor is not the same, and obviously your answer is dependent upon what honor means, and what the word implies.

Cambraceres

[hyde]

[ QUOTE ]
Lyslty is an easy to understand word. Honor is not the same, and obviously your answer is dependent upon what honor means, and what the word implies.

Cambraceres

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. I dictionaried honor and found it was not as clear as I imagined.
Principled uprightness of character; personal integrity.

I take my definition from the code of honor at our military acadamies. that truth will be told at all times and cadets can not hold knowledge of other cadets not following the code of truth always. One cadet can not know about another cheating for example and not report it. it is critical to the reputation for the institution. Honesty always.

A previous responder appears to value loyalty to family over honesty. If I read his response correctly he would not report a friend for stealing, or murder. In a world of honor there is no such distinction. those distinctions are often rationalized for personal gain.
Another example, if a police officer sees a colleague beat a suspect and says nothing, does he share any responsibility if the colleague beats the next suspect to death?
I say yes. I say he lacked honor.

[madnak]

That's an extremely rigid and dogmatic view of honor. I consider a person who doesn't stand by his friends to be dishonorable.

[TomCollins]

[ QUOTE ]
That's an extremely rigid and dogmatic view of honor. I consider a person who doesn't stand by his friends to be dishonorable.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if your friends go out and rape someone? Or your daughter? Blind loyalty is about as unhonorable as it comes. People earn loyalty. They can destroy it too.

[madnak]

Depends on the situation. If I think my friend is going to keep raping people I may turn him in. It would be a hard choice. If someone puts their faith in me I don't violate that on a whim.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
Lyslty is an easy to understand word.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard to type though.