frustrating loss with KK

Stephen Flowers · #1 04-01-2006, 05:37 PM

im new to poker and this forum. hope this is the right subforum to post in.

1/2 limit at Stars, i have KK in the BB, two limpers, one raiser, one cold caller, i reraise, everybody calls.

flop is 3s 5s 8d, i bet, one call, one fold, preflop raiser rerasies, preflop cold caller folds, i 3bet, previous raiser is the only caller.

turn is 3c, i bet, he calls.

river is Js, i bet, he raises, i call quite sure that he hit the winning flush. sure enough he shows A7 spades.

now, is this a bad beat, or was there some way i could've protected my hand better? im thinking that no matter what, he had the odds to call down in this big pot.

alphatmw · #2 04-01-2006, 06:09 PM

yes flush draws hitting are bad beats. likewise, coin flips losing are bad beats.

ItalianFX · #3 04-01-2006, 06:20 PM

You have to remember that all KK is, is a pair of kings. The reason why it is a strong hand is because of its ability to win unimproved. Yes it sucks when we lose with those high pair hands because we think they are automatic money, but they are not.

With your hand in particular, you have an aggressive player raising preflop. Now, 2 spades hit. More often than not a player with a flush draw will play to the river trying to catch the flush. And it increases even more when they hold the Ace of that particular suit.

There really isn't anything you can do about this. You played it fine, in my opinion. You can't make someone else fold. You can only make them make the wrong decision.

pzhon · #4 04-01-2006, 07:01 PM

Preflop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 2:1 favorite, including the blind.
Flop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 52:48 favorite. Maybe you thought you were more of a favorite?
Turn: You put in 1 BB as a 3:1 favorite.
River: You put in 2 BB while dead.

On average, the money went in while you were behind, a 4:3 underdog, so this wasn't a bad beat. You didn't play it badly, and neither did your opponent. This type of hand should happen frequently. If you can't stand it, quit poker.

Stephen Flowers · #5 04-01-2006, 07:13 PM

if i was favored to win until the river, how was i underdog before the river?

and i use the word 'frustrating' rather liberally.

pzhon · #6 04-01-2006, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if i was favored to win until the river, how was i underdog before the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
No one said you were an underdog before the river. I said you were an underdog on average when the money went in. You paid off a raise on the river, which means 1/3 of the money in the pot went in while you were dead.

Stephen Flowers · #7 04-01-2006, 07:20 PM

oh

ItalianFX · #8 04-01-2006, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 2:1 favorite, including the blind.
Flop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 52:48 favorite. Maybe you thought you were more of a favorite?
Turn: You put in 1 BB as a 3:1 favorite.
River: You put in 2 BB while dead.

On average, the money went in while you were behind, a 4:3 underdog, so this wasn't a bad beat. You didn't play it badly, and neither did your opponent. This type of hand should happen frequently. If you can't stand it, quit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you figure out that top part? That is very interesting.

pzhon · #9 04-01-2006, 07:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 2:1 favorite, including the blind.
Flop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 52:48 favorite. Maybe you thought you were more of a favorite?
Turn: You put in 1 BB as a 3:1 favorite.
River: You put in 2 BB while dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you figure out that top part? That is very interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you see the odds have hyperlinks? Click on them to get to Two Dimes. I recommend using an odds calculator like Two Dimes or PokerStove to build up your intuition.

Note that I guessed that the OP did not have the K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Some people would have mentioned that.

Stephen Flowers · #10 04-01-2006, 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 2:1 favorite, including the blind.
Flop: You put in 1.5 BB as a 52:48 favorite. Maybe you thought you were more of a favorite?
Turn: You put in 1 BB as a 3:1 favorite.
River: You put in 2 BB while dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you figure out that top part? That is very interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see the odds have hyperlinks? Click on them to get to Two Dimes. I recommend using an odds calculator like Two Dimes or PokerStove to build up your intuition.

Note that I guessed that the OP did not have the K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Some people would have mentioned that.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually i did have the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], simply just forgot to mention it.

that information does help when figuring % to win, though. my bad.