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  #1  
Old 11-21-2007, 03:24 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Vulnerable top pair.

30-60 live 9 handed. I know this may seem basic but I am just doing a check-up.

HJ limps(He is tight preflop, very aggressive post flop. I have seen him make it three bets out of position with just overcards heads up. He bets his draws and pairs very strongly.)

Button calls(Tight, seems good)

SB calls(very aggressive both preflop and postflop. Has no ability to get away from a hand no matter how scary the board is. He will call raises and bets pretty lightly preflop and on the flop.)

I check in BB with Ad9d.

The flop: 9c7s4s.

I bet, HJ raises, SB calls, I reraise, both call.

The turn: 9c7s4s4c

SB bets. What is my play? The SB by the way is loose enough to have a 4. I have made a couple free showdown raises against him up to this point.

Was my flop three bet correct? Or would you call and wait to see what comes on the turn?
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2007, 03:30 PM
CardSharpCook CardSharpCook is offline
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Default Re: Vulnerable top pair.

so you fold. Your flop 3bet seems fine.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2007, 03:31 PM
Niediam Niediam is offline
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Default Re: Vulnerable top pair.

I'd tend to call down... especially since you said that SB can bet lightly.

I like your flop play.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:10 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Re: Vulnerable top pair.

[ QUOTE ]
so you fold. Your flop 3bet seems fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it. In my AK hand you responded by saying not to fold yet in that situation the Kh made a potential flush, straight and not to mention trip tens could be out there. Why would you now advocate fold on this turn?
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2007, 05:37 PM
CardSharpCook CardSharpCook is offline
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Default Re: Vulnerable top pair.

Because you have more information here. You had reason to doubt your TPTK was no good on the flop. Now you have pressure from a new source on the turn. I really don't care if the turn was the 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or the eleventieth of Purple Moons, you have more than enough evidence to believe you're not winning this hand. SB has you beat here over 80% of the time. HJ has you beat, or will have you beat some 25-30% of the time. Add it up, and it ain't worth 2+BB to find out if this is the 5-15% of the time that you actually have the best hand.
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2007, 02:48 AM
Chuck Chuck is offline
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Default Re: Vulnerable top pair.

I like this hand and don't find it basic at all.

A couple of bullet points first.

*HIJACK- Limping from the hijack is not tight play. In fact when you see this you can be fairly sure that you've got a poor player. Note, in the situation where there are loose players after him (were there?- you said the button was tight although his limp can be argued as loose also) then QJs-109S are okay to limp with but everything else is a raise or fold. Basically I'm saying that he's neither tight nor very good pre flop. I'm also going to say that the button is not tight either.

* What percentage of the time does the sb check raise with a 4 in this situation? You have to estimate this and then factor in the pot size (which is big). It's very hard to put him on a hand here because he limped/completed preflop and obviously liked the flop- big range of hands here. Some of these hands will have a 4 but most won't.

Basically it comes down to (given the pot size):

How often are you ahead of the hijack- you beat almost all of the hands that he *should* merely limp with preflop and also most of the other hands (that he played poorly by limping with). With hands that do have you beat you will be 4 bet quite often on the flop, which didn't happen. My answer: It looks very favorable that you have the best of it with regards to the hijack.

The sb is actually easier to deal with. It's a parlay: he has to have a hand that has a 4 in it with which he called 2 bets cold on the flop AND elected to lead out on the turn rather than going for a very high percentage check raise. Pretty big parlay, right? How big is that pot again?

You have alot of equity here. Folding is atrocious. Calling vs. raising is close and would really need another post to describe why. Just don't fold here.

Sidenote: although one hand doesn't tell much it looks like you've got a loose game. Consider raising with your A9s from the bb in these situations.
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