JJ with position and 2nd pair

HermannTL · #1 10-28-2007, 09:32 PM

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.15.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 (poster) checks, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero...

BB is 57/2.86/0.77, fishy, seems to call with crap but not bet with crap, cold-calls often, saw him take T9o in MP bet flop of A93 and called raise, then called turn & river UI.
UTG is 39/11. UTG+1 45/0. SB 60/13. No other notes.

My first thought is to raise to clarify the situation, then fold if 3-bet. There are so many players in, though, that a raise seems spewy.

ckj · #2 10-28-2007, 09:54 PM

Raising>>Folding>>>>>>> >>>Calling.

This hand is almost straight out of SSHE (P.123) and I probably raise this to try and blast everyone else out of the pot, not that that's a likely occurance in .10/.20.

Your raise is not totally for information, bets and raises are never strictly for information. Your hand is worth almost as much as a pair of queens, so if you would raise queens in this spot (which you probably should) you should raise jacks.

neurotiq · #3 10-28-2007, 10:06 PM

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My first thought is to raise to clarify the situation, then fold if 3-bet.

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Please don't raise and fold to a 3bet if you end up getting the proper odds (current and implied) to chase your two-outer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

kbdunn · #4 10-28-2007, 10:27 PM

If I remember right the instance in SSHE was when there was a large pot, flush draw on the flop, hero had a BDFD, and hero's raise could face the rest of the field for two cold.

Calling here seems fine. Since you are nearly closing the action, raising will only push the SB out. Since your read on the BB is he blows, he could be betting a ton of hands that you beat and possibly a Qx. Raising to see what the BB does probably wont help you, because he will most likely just call if he has a Q and call if he has a weak made hand or draw. Either of the callers may have a Q too.

On the turn with three callers, the BB may just check if some paint hits the board, you can bet/fold here depending on your reads.

Aaron W. · #5 10-28-2007, 10:35 PM

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Raising>>Folding>>>>>>> >>>Calling.

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No. With a bettor and two callers in the middle on a pretty dry board, you don't likely have the best hand. Fold > Call >>>> Raise.

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This hand is almost straight out of SSHE (P.123) and I probably raise this to try and blast everyone else out of the pot, not that that's a likely occurance in .10/.20.

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No. That was a hand example devoid of any action. Also, who do you expect to blow out given that two players have already called?

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Your raise is not totally for information, bets and raises are never strictly for information. Your hand is worth almost as much as a pair of queens, so if you would raise queens in this spot (which you probably should) you should raise jacks.

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No. Your hand is worth much less than a hand like Q6. You have fewer outs if you're behind and you can't even get a lucky runner-runner chop against a stronger Q (Q9 chops if the board pairs and a T falls on the river).

ckj · #6 10-29-2007, 12:04 AM

Whoops, I saw one caller not two. Nevermind, a raise isn't good here. I'm probably more likely to fold with so many players in the pot personally, but a call down might be in order.

Also, I hate donk bettors.

Maxinho · #7 10-29-2007, 01:37 AM

Fold here, 3 players like their hands, I think there is 1% of the time your hand will be good in this spot, just fold

Sushiglutton · #8 10-29-2007, 06:25 AM

Well you can't raise fold since the pot-odds will be like >23:1 so you should try to hit your set. I would still raise to get some initiative and try to fold out SB.

Sushiglutton · #9 10-29-2007, 06:30 AM

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Fold here, 3 players like their hands, I think there is 1% of the time your hand will be good in this spot, just fold

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BB range: 5x, 4x, Qx, 22+, 67. The two callers holds two cards each. No matter how I calculate I can't get that to 1%.

HermannTL · #10 10-29-2007, 01:09 PM

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No. Your hand is worth much less than a hand like Q6. You have fewer outs if you're behind and you can't even get a lucky runner-runner chop against a stronger Q (Q9 chops if the board pairs and a T falls on the river).

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I think he meant that QQ in my position is about the same as JJ. If he has Qx it's very much better than my JJ.