how to analyze betting patterns and use it against your opponents?

[Super_Saan]

Hi all,

im new on this forum so i introduce myself. Im a 23 year old profesional poker player from Holland. playing 25/50NLH on several european sites. I decided to post here cause on dutch forums there arent many very good players who can answer my question.

I have an big PT database and i wanna use it against my opponents by analyzing their betting patterns.

I have already been thinking about flop patterns. Sometimes i figure someone is leading the flop with mediocre and hands (like a low top pair) and leadng flush and straight draws, but if i know this how can i use it against them? and what can i find out more on flop patterns? Or should i try to find out more on turn and river patterns? And how should i do this? and how can i use this this against them?

I hope my question is clear, if not ask me and i will answer as soon as possible.

Thanks!

[n2p]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi all,

Im a 23 year old profesional poker player from Holland. playing 25/50NLH on several european sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

don't lie

[Super_Saan]

take a look at celebpoker and cakepoker, playing there at least 20 hours a week

[KRANTZ]

saan,

instead of asking people to do the work for you, why don't you come up with hypotheses and examples for us to talk about? you have a big PT database so you will be able to dig up hands.

for instance, show us a bunch of different types of betting patterns through hand examples - then hypothesize how you can use those betting patterns against them.

you're a 25/50nl player so you should be smart enough to come up with something good. then we can all analyze.

good luck!!

[Super_Saan]

Hi KRANTZ,

thanks for you reply, it wasnt my itention to let all the work for me done. Its certainly a good idea to post some different types of hands. I thought it is a good idea to start with one opponent. I have changed his nick to playerX cause he might read here or type his name is google.

I have already noticed that he plays his hands a lot different against weaker player than against strong players. So i only slow hands that he played against good players. I selected some hands where he was on a pure bluff, a few hands when he flops it(set or straight), some hands when he has an overpair and some hands when he hits his pair on flop. If i forget someting let me know then i try to find it. I also have added some 10/20 hands cause that database is a lot bigger.

on a pure bluff:

BossMedia Game #797763327: Table Table TH 849 - $25.00/$50.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:41:45 - 2007/10/22
Seat 1: Energie123 ($14909.00)
Seat 2: Super_Saan ($4950.00)
Seat 3: AAKK20 ($11291.00)
Seat 4: PlayerX ($5607.23)
Seat 5: olemandus1 ($4925.00)
AAKK20 posts the big blind of $50.00
Super_Saan posts the small blind of $25.00
Energie123 is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [6s 6c]
PlayerX raises $200.00
olemandus1 calls $200.00
Energie123 calls $200.00
Super_Saan calls $200.00
AAKK20 folds
*** FLOP *** [2s 3s Td]
Super_Saan checks
PlayerX bets $550.00
olemandus1 folds
Energie123 calls $550.00
Super_Saan folds
*** TURN *** [2s 3s Td] [Js]
PlayerX checks
Energie123 checks
*** RIVER *** [2s 3s Td Js] [Kc]
PlayerX bets $1550.00
Energie123 calls $1550.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5047.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [2s 3s Td Js Kc]
Energie123 won ($5047.00), showed [Jd Th]
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
AAKK20 won ($0.00), mucks
PlayerX won ($0.00), showed [9s 7h]
olemandus1 won ($0.00), mucks

pair + draw:

BossMedia Game #729368457: Table Table TH 24 - $25.00/$50.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:38:08 - 2007/08/24
Seat 1: Super_Saan ($9531.00)
Seat 2: Im a THUG ($7945.00)
Seat 3: hakan83 ($4197.00)
Seat 4: Pokergirl_ ($5928.50)
Seat 5: PlayerX ($5369.00)
Im a THUG posts the small blind of $25.00
hakan83 posts the big blind of $50.00
Super_Saan is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [4d Jc]
Pokergirl_ raises $200.00
PlayerX calls $200.00
Super_Saan folds
Im a THUG folds
hakan83 folds
*** FLOP *** [9d 6d Ts]
Pokergirl_ bets $350.00
PlayerX calls $350.00
*** TURN *** [9d 6d Ts] [7d]
Pokergirl_ checks
PlayerX checks
*** RIVER *** [9d 6d Ts 7d] [5d]
Pokergirl_ bets $550.00
PlayerX raises $2000.00
Pokergirl_ calls $2000.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5172.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [9d 6d Ts 7d 5d]
Pokergirl_ won ($0.00), mucks
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
Im a THUG won ($0.00), mucks
hakan83 won ($0.00), mucks
PlayerX won ($5172.00), showed [8d Td]

top pair weak kicker:

BossMedia Game #795425764: Table Table TH 5 - $25.00/$50.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:44:01 - 2007/10/20
Seat 1: PlayerX ($4944.00)
Seat 2: HelmetHero ($5225.00)
Seat 3: repicas ($3661.00)
Seat 4: Super_Saan ($5866.00)
Seat 5: MANOUEL ($6016.00)
repicas posts the small blind of $25.00
Super_Saan posts the big blind of $50.00
HelmetHero is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [Ah 7h]
MANOUEL folds
PlayerX raises $200.00
HelmetHero calls $200.00
repicas folds
Super_Saan folds
*** FLOP *** [9d 9s Kd]
PlayerX checks
HelmetHero checks
*** TURN *** [9d 9s Kd] [8h]
PlayerX checks
HelmetHero bets $500.00
PlayerX calls $500.00
*** RIVER *** [9d 9s Kd 8h] [8s]
PlayerX checks
HelmetHero bets $1500.00
PlayerX calls $1500.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4472.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [9d 9s Kd 8h 8s]
PlayerX won ($4472.00), showed [Ks Td]
HelmetHero won ($0.00), showed [4c As]
repicas won ($0.00), mucks
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
MANOUEL won ($0.00), mucks

underpair to the board in big pre flop pot:

BossMedia Game #795462408: Table Table TH 446 - $50.00/$100.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 03:16:05 - 2007/10/20
Seat 1: Super_Saan ($19900.00)
Seat 2: AllUcanE@T ($39730.54)
Seat 4: AAKK20 ($9235.00)
Seat 5: PlayerX ($7995.00)
PlayerX posts the big blind of $100.00
AAKK20 posts the small blind of $50.00
AllUcanE@T is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [2c 6s]
Super_Saan folds
AllUcanE@T raises $400.00
AAKK20 calls $400.00
PlayerX raises $1600.00
AllUcanE@T calls $1600.00
AAKK20 calls $1600.00
*** FLOP *** [5c 9c Kh]
AAKK20 checks
PlayerX checks
AllUcanE@T checks
*** TURN *** [5c 9c Kh] [8s]
AAKK20 checks
PlayerX checks
AllUcanE@T checks
*** RIVER *** [5c 9c Kh 8s] [4c]
AAKK20 checks
PlayerX checks
AllUcanE@T checks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4795.00 | Rake $5.00
Board: [5c 9c Kh 8s 4c]
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
AllUcanE@T won ($4795.00), showed [Jd Jc]
AAKK20 won ($0.00), showed [7s Js]
PlayerX won ($0.00), showed [Th Ts]

underpair to the board in low pot:

BossMedia Game #783471549: Table Table TH 123 - $25.00/$50.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:17:15 - 2007/10/10
Seat 1: Big Gay Al ($7308.50)
Seat 2: fredd333 ($10011.27)
Seat 3: PlayerX ($5000.00)
Seat 4: majamus20 ($1134.72)
Seat 5: Super_Saan ($7507.00)
majamus20 posts the big blind of $50.00
PlayerX posts the small blind of $25.00
fredd333 is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [3s 7h]
Super_Saan folds
Big Gay Al raises $150.00
fredd333 folds
PlayerX calls $150.00
majamus20 folds
*** FLOP *** [6s Jh 6h]
PlayerX checks
Big Gay Al bets $250.00
PlayerX raises $750.00
Big Gay Al calls $750.00
*** TURN *** [6s Jh 6h] [9c]
PlayerX checks
Big Gay Al checks
*** RIVER *** [6s Jh 6h 9c] [2s]
PlayerX checks
Big Gay Al checks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1847.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [6s Jh 6h 9c 2s]
Big Gay Al won ($1847.00), showed [Td Jd]
fredd333 won ($0.00), mucks
PlayerX won ($0.00), showed [3c 3h]
majamus20 won ($0.00), mucks
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks

flopped set:

BossMedia Game #780560450: Table Table TH 819 - $10.00/$20.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:45:31 - 2007/10/07
Seat 1: PlayerX ($2221.00)
Seat 2: DogEatz_ ($4443.00)
Seat 3: Super_Saan ($1980.00)
Seat 4: fredd333 ($10982.66)
Seat 5: Aniquil ($2047.00)
DogEatz_ posts the big blind of $20.00
PlayerX posts the small blind of $10.00
Aniquil is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [Jh Kd]
Super_Saan raises $80.00
fredd333 calls $80.00
Aniquil calls $80.00
PlayerX calls $80.00
DogEatz_ calls $80.00
*** FLOP *** [5d Kh 2h]
PlayerX bets $320.00
DogEatz_ calls $320.00
Super_Saan folds
fredd333 folds
Aniquil goes all-in with $1967.00
PlayerX goes all-in with $2141.00
DogEatz_ folds
*** TURN *** [5d Kh 2h] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [5d Kh 2h Qd] [8h]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4651.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [5d Kh 2h Qd 8h]
PlayerX won ($4651.00), showed [2d 2c]
DogEatz_ won ($0.00), mucks
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
fredd333 won ($0.00), mucks
Aniquil won ($0.00), showed [Ks 2s]

flush draw with overs:

BossMedia Game #783420270: Table Table TH 820 - $10.00/$20.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:28:15 - 2007/10/10
Seat 1: Big Gay Al ($1980.00)
Seat 2: casinotour ($968.00)
Seat 3: Super_Saan ($2000.00)
Seat 4: PlayerX ($2147.00)
Seat 5: Alusch54 ($4889.16)
Big Gay Al posts the small blind of $10.00
casinotour posts the big blind of $20.00
Alusch54 is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [6d 7d]
Super_Saan raises $80.00
PlayerX calls $80.00
Alusch54 calls $80.00
Big Gay Al folds
casinotour calls $80.00
*** FLOP *** [Ts 6c 7s]
casinotour checks
Super_Saan bets $280.00
PlayerX calls $280.00
Alusch54 raises $710.00
casinotour folds
Super_Saan folds
PlayerX calls $710.00
*** TURN *** [Ts 6c 7s] [Ad]
PlayerX goes all-in with $1357.00
Alusch54 calls $1357.00
*** RIVER *** [Ts 6c 7s Ad] [8s]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4741.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [Ts 6c 7s Ad 8s]
Alusch54 won ($0.00), mucks
Big Gay Al won ($0.00), mucks
casinotour won ($0.00), mucks
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
PlayerX won ($4741.00), showed [Ks Js]

a flopped straight:

BossMedia Game #721199628: Table Table TH 200 - $10.00/$20.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:33:31 - 2007/08/16
Seat 1: ros65 ($734.50)
Seat 2: Super_Saan ($3198.00)
Seat 3: Tilt@JeKi ($1970.00)
Seat 4: PlayerX ($2269.00)
Seat 5: YES_I_WON ($2783.80)
ros65 posts the small blind of $10.00
Super_Saan posts the big blind of $20.00
YES_I_WON is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [8h Jh]
Tilt@JeKi folds
PlayerX raises $60.00
YES_I_WON calls $60.00
ros65 folds
Super_Saan calls $60.00
*** FLOP *** [9c Js Tc]
Super_Saan checks
PlayerX bets $140.00
YES_I_WON folds
Super_Saan calls $140.00
*** TURN *** [9c Js Tc] [7d]
Super_Saan checks
PlayerX bets $260.00
Super_Saan calls $260.00
*** RIVER *** [9c Js Tc 7d] [2h]
Super_Saan bets $900.00
PlayerX goes all-in with $1809.00
Super_Saan calls $1809.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4605.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [9c Js Tc 7d 2h]
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
ros65 won ($0.00), mucks
Tilt@JeKi won ($0.00), mucks
PlayerX won ($4605.00), showed [Kc Qc]
YES_I_WON won ($0.00), mucks

top pair top kicker:

BossMedia Game #780563025: Table Table TH 819 - $10.00/$20.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:48:53 - 2007/10/07
Seat 1: PlayerX ($4625.00)
Seat 2: DogEatz_ ($4250.00)
Seat 3: Super_Saan ($4007.00)
Seat 4: fredd333 ($8882.66)
Seat 5: Aniquil ($2000.00)
fredd333 posts the small blind of $10.00
Aniquil posts the big blind of $20.00
Super_Saan is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [7c 7d]
PlayerX raises $80.00
DogEatz_ calls $80.00
Super_Saan calls $80.00
fredd333 folds
Aniquil folds
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4c Th]
PlayerX bets $220.00
DogEatz_ calls $220.00
Super_Saan folds
*** TURN *** [Qs 4c Th] [6h]
PlayerX checks
DogEatz_ checks
*** RIVER *** [Qs 4c Th 6h] [5h]
PlayerX bets $560.00
DogEatz_ calls $560.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1827.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [Qs 4c Th 6h 5h]
DogEatz_ won ($0.00), mucks
PlayerX won ($1827.00), showed [Qh Ah]
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks
fredd333 won ($0.00), mucks
Aniquil won ($0.00), mucks

value betting top pair when only beat QJ:

BossMedia Game #747560882: Table Table TH 380 - $10.00/$20.00 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:10:15 - 2007/09/09
Seat 1: bmhykss ($2321.00)
Seat 2: fico100 ($1293.44)
Seat 3: EL-MILAGRO ($1777.00)
Seat 4: PlayerX ($2037.00)
Seat 5: Super_Saan ($2272.00)
fico100 posts the big blind of $20.00
bmhykss posts the small blind of $10.00
Super_Saan is the button
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Super_Saan [5d Kh]
EL-MILAGRO folds
PlayerX raises $60.00
Super_Saan folds
bmhykss calls $60.00
fico100 folds
*** FLOP *** [Ts Js 4c]
bmhykss checks
PlayerX bets $100.00
bmhykss calls $100.00
*** TURN *** [Ts Js 4c] [6d]
bmhykss checks
PlayerX bets $260.00
bmhykss calls $260.00
*** RIVER *** [Ts Js 4c 6d] [3d]
bmhykss checks
PlayerX bets $520.00
bmhykss calls $520.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1897.00 | Rake $3.00
Board: [Ts Js 4c 6d 3d]
bmhykss won ($0.00), mucks
fico100 won ($0.00), mucks
EL-MILAGRO won ($0.00), mucks
PlayerX won ($1897.00), showed [Kd Jd]
Super_Saan won ($0.00), mucks

so what should i notice at these patterns and how can i use this against him?

I hope we can all learn from it. If there is anyting missing in this post, let me know.

Thanks!

[KRANTZ]

umm these are not betting patterns. these are hands a specific player has played with no real relation to each other. your OP talks about flop leads or turn bets; this is all just random and scattered.

if you want to discuss specific players, or even get a better idea of just what betting patterns are, i would suggest getting a coach or at least spending some more time by yourself, looking at your hands and using your brain to think about poker analytically.

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
umm these are not betting patterns. these are hands a specific player has played with no real relation to each other. your OP talks about flop leads or turn bets; this is all just random and scattered.

if you want to discuss specific players, or even get a better idea of just what betting patterns are, i would suggest getting a coach or at least spending some more time by yourself, looking at your hands and using your brain to think about poker analytically.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your the best Jay [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

~stephen