Things it took me a while to learn part 5, 3 betting/4 betting

[Bond18]

It’s hard to find a good balance between to much pre flop reraising and not enough. For quite a long time I was just 3 betting non stop, if only to make peoples lives hard and image purposes. Over the last few months through a lot of review I feel like I’ve pulled it back a little bit and found a pretty good balance.

I kind of lump 3 betting/4 betting into two categories, for value and as a resteal bluff. Most of this article will focus on 3 betting since it’s way more common than 4 betting. It’s likely that you could go months without 4 betting pre as a bluff and it wouldn’t be a serious leak, especially at lower limits. So lets get in depth talking 3 betting first:

The first important factor in regards to 3 betting is stack size. If you have under 27 BB’s I’d say just about any 3 bet should be an all in. There is however an exception for players who take all-ins very seriously but will foolishly call off a ton of effective stacks to a nominal reraise. In these kind of situations if button raises 3X and you’re sitting with a big hand in the BB you should reraise to 9X and then jam or check/jam most flops, depending on how good they are for you. If you put this amount of your stack in pre you should never check fold the flop.

This move is basically known as the go and go. The more normal execution of the go and go 3 bet occurs with around 28-36 BB’s. The basic idea is this: Simply shoving pre tends to be a bit of an over bet. However your hand is way too good to flat call. So you reraise an amount that will make your flop shove (or occasional check shove) very natural.

Example: Your stack: 35 BB’s. CO’s stack: 40 BB’s. You hold AsQs in the BB.
Preflop: Folds to CO, CO raises to 3 BB’s.
Alright, now the mistake some players make here is reraising to small. At 28 BB’s going to 9 BB’s would be fine but in a spot like this you need to bloat the pot, so I recommend making it about 11 BB’s. Assuming there are antes, if CO elects to call there’s going to be about 24 BB’s in the middle and you’ll have 24 BB’s left in your stack. On the vast majority of flops you need to be open shoving. THE ONLY TIMES YOU SHOULD BE CHECKING IS WHEN YOU HIT A CRUSHING FLOP. If you hit Ad 7s 2s (or something similar) you should be check shoving that flop. So after I make this post if I see anyone do this and fold a flop because their scared to shove I’m going to get medieval on their ass.

The next important factor in 3 bet sizing is trying to keep your sizes consistent. The most obvious thing you see people doing is min 3 betting or tiny 3 betting with their huge hands in order not to lose the original raiser. VS non thinking villains who just see a good price and click the call button this is okay, but vs anyone capable of thinking about a hand this is pretty bad since you’re tipping them off to your strength. You see this kind of thing very often even at the high levels and from the good players, and every time I see one good player trying to tiny reraise another good player with AA / KK I just laugh at how transparently foolish they are. The defining factor in your reraise size should be effective stacks NOT hand strength, in most situations.

Now lets talk about 3 betting as a resteal opposed to value. Executing this properly requires an understanding of meta game factors. Have you been 3 betting much recently? Have your 3 bets been shown down as very strong hands? Are you near a bubble? What are positions? Is villain opening a lot of pots? Are you in a bubble situation villain cares about? Is villain paying any attention at all to the table?

There’s two kinds of resteals, restealing all in and restealing with chips behind intending to fold to an all in. Let’s talk about proper execution of both:

All in: The proper stack size for this is about 13-21 BB’s. Less than 13 BB’s and you don’t really have any fold equity and if you shove 22 BB’s or more on a sub par hand it tends to be a bit of a spew. Most reraises all in should be over the top of a hijack, CO, button or SB raise. Most people aren’t loose enough in positions before that to get enough folds, though players do come along where you can profitably execute this. I prefer to do this with hands that have some equity when called, suited aces, suited connectors/one/two gapers, low broadway cards. However, sometimes you’ll find a spot where restealing all in with ATC is +EV (especially around bubbles) so if you recognize that situation don’t be afraid to exploit it with whatever you have.

With chips behind: Of course we start with stack sizes. Because I hate putting 30%+ of my stack in pre and folding post I’m not pulling this move unless effective stacks are 35 BB’s or more. Every now and then you’ll see a rare spot you can do this with the low 30 BB’s but it’s not too often. There’s a big difference between doing this in and out of position. I tend to go 2-3 BB’s more when OOP to try and prevent playing a bloated OOP pot with a weak hand.

Example: Effective stacks 40 BB’s. I hold 57s in a spot I think is really good to resteal.
A. Raiser is CO I’m button. Co raises to 3 BB’s, I tend to make it 8.5-9.5 BB’s here. If villain calls and I flop a big draw I try to get it in whether he bets or checks. If I flop a weak draw and he checks I tend to check behind. If I flop a pair and he leads I likely fold, if I flop a pair and he checks my decision will depend on board texture and villain.
B. Raiser is CO I’m BB. Co raises to 3 BB’s. I tend to make it 10.5-11.5 BB’s here.
If villain calls and I flop a big draw I likely lead close to full pot to let him know he has no FE. If I flop a pair I make a game time decision based on villains expected calling range and board texture. Anything else I probably check with the intention of folding to most bets.

Alright, now let’s go over 4 betting. Obviously everyone knows how to 4 bet all in with a strong hand after they get someone to 3 bet them. So lets talk about how to 4 bet with a wide range hoping to get a fold out of villain. First of all this is a very rare move to use, and it is extremely meta-game dependant.

I think optimal effective stacks for this are about 37-43 BB’s. Even optimal effective stacks depends on villain, as some villains will 3 bet you with 32 BB effective stacks with the intention of folding to a shove. In this spot, knowing your villain is everything. At low stakes there are very few players with a high restealing frequency, so if you attempt this move you’re basically trying to bluff out some guy who 3 bet you with TT/AQ and now doesn’t know what to do because he didn’t think ahead. It’s a rare enough thing to do that even at my volume I probably only use it around 1-3 times a week. However, if you can find a villain who seems to be 3 betting you or a lot of villains often, and you raise up a hand and again he 3 bets you (this gets a little easier if he has a betting size tell, like raising smaller with resteals or etc) every now and then you need to take control back by 4 betting all in.

Alright guys that’s it for this time. As always, if there’s any questions just ask.

[footnbaseball]

Thanks for taking the time to type these up, they're really fantastic [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Rocco]

Excellent, mr. Bond! I can confirm that learning this properly is easily the most effective way to build a big stack in the mid/late game. It's also the reason to why I'm now reaching final tables on a more frequent basis...

[Bond18]

Thanks guys. I agree Rocco, i think to consistently build a stack deep in tournaments these plays are an absolute must.

[BarryLyndon]

I have a few questions:

1. Say you are up against an absolute lagtard who's play is giving everyone fits (not because it's good, mind, you, his winnings are marginal and he just went in for 25BB PF with 78o and held up against KQo). So, a bit later, he now has 60BB and is CL by a mile, you have 33BB and in the top 5 in chips. Players to my left are weak. I don't trust his flop play at all.

He raises on the button 2.5xBB, now you are in BB with AdJd. Given his play, you don't feel like you can bluff him on the flop much as his stack is nowhere in jeopardy. Is this too psychological and not logical?

Given our BBs, is this still a good time for a go-n-go? Put another way, is there a point where CL's stack is so massive / he's so loosey-goosey and bad that a go-n-go becomes suboptimal at 30+BB?

In that hand I actually smooth called, which felt yucky, but I wanted to keep the pot small against the big CL and see if I can win a big pot by trapping him on the flop. Bad, yes?

2. ATC: So, a few months ago when I started to introduce myself to resteals I would do it with a select range of cards. I have now included ATC into my RR range, and for the most part, RRing with ATC is a great way to understand the sheer power of the 3-bet.

However, the question is when and to what frequency. In other words, the process of attaining precision in the selection process? Obviously, one clear example is when the raise is so large that you know that your opponent will not fold, you fold.

We all know that there is a "time," but holding 94s and pulling the trigger is tough. I mean, how do you gauge when your FE is enough to push with 94s? Last Sunday, I 3-bet pushed with 106s almost reflexively - stack sizes were perfect and the button had shown a propensity to open raise every chance he got. A CLEAR situation. OK, that' well and good, but most times situations aren't that clear.

3. How about 3-betting against very active MP1 - CO -1. How do you adjust? Still ATC, or do you mandate a tighter range here?

4. I have a HABITUAL fear of 3-betting with weak aces. No question here - just thought I would throw that out there.

Barry

[ZenMusician]

Awesome post B!

I have more opportunities to use these moves live; I've
never actually seen someone fold to a pf 3-bet >$25
online!

-ZEN

[ettorek]

Thanks Bond for doing this: great game insight.

[BrandiFan]

Good post Bond,
Barry, in response to your situation vs lagtard, I think calling is fine there. Especially since you can outplay him on the flop.

You're too deep to want to get it all in and 3 betting would basically turn into a bluff here. Clueless players don't get it that they're supposed to fold QJ to your 3 bet here and will often flat call leaving you with no idea where you are in the hand. Especially in the lower limits, you're going to need to show this type of player a hand. If you have ~20xBB, this is an easy shove.

[BrandiFan]

Bond, what are your thoughts on the efficacy of 3 bet bluffs in the $3r-$20 range?
I use the go and go from the blinds sometimes and <20bb value shoves, but I don't like to 3 bet bluff much. These donks just seem way to willing to stick it in with QJ...

[RonFezBuddy]

THANK YOU. Been waiting for this topic. These are very much appreciated by the community.