Hand 2 - 10NL: Flush draw vs.

[JereLock]

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $0.94
BB: $1.51
UTG: $4.96
UTG+1: $8.76
UTG+2: $4.98
MP1: $0.80
MP2: $3.44
Hero (CO): $2.15
BTN: $0.67

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 folds, Hero calls $0.02, BTN folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $0.10</font>, BB calls $0.08, UTG calls $0.08, MP1 folds, Hero calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.42) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $0.20</font>, 3 folds


Hero???

What is the chance that one of the next two cards will be a flush? If I call here, and the next card isn't, then what? Should I shove here? Raise? fold?

Thanks!

[Brocktoon]

You're all in on the flop. IMO this is a no brainer but I'm no expert.

The chances of the next card giving you a flush are about 4:1 against (and just barely better than 2:1 against over the next 2 streets) but you also have a gut shot broadway and its very unlikely SB has a made flush. Although a set is certainly possible its not likely enough to worry about.

SB is too short to think about folding this hand IMO so its better to just shove the flop where you still have some fold equity and even when called will often be a coinflip with a bunch of dead money in anyway.

FWIW I'm not sure calling the 8 cents preflop is good with such an easily dominated hand like KJo. KJo is a VERY dangerous hand in full ring NL. In a multi-way pot for a raise from a mid-stacked blind its a killer.

BTW, this isn't $10NL as far as I can tell, its $2 NL. Also, unless there is a problem with the convertor you already showed us that you folded the flop, which is a pretty big mistake. If you're going to fold that flop (which is a great one for your hand) then why are you playing KJo in the first palce?

[Chargers In 07]

You should shove here. If his range is AQ/QQ/AA you're going to lose $0.01 everytime you push here. His range is not that small plus you have some fold equity against KK.

[ QUOTE ]
If I call here, and the next card isn't, then what?

[/ QUOTE ] This is why you push the flop. It eliminates decisions and gets you all in while your equity is at it's highest.

[ QUOTE ]
What is the chance that one of the next two cards will be a flush?

[/ QUOTE ] 1.97:1

You should fold this preflop to the sbs raise.

[JereLock]

I can begin to see in retrospect I definitely should have shoved teh flop, I'm thinking something in the context of his play made me fold... wasn't a read though

As for folding pf to his raise: at 2NL (you're right, 2nl, me=newb) the vast majority of the players are raising any faces, any pp, and usually more... do I still fold the KJo with such donkish pf raises?

[toymach776]

BTW, this is 2NL not 10NL. Anyway, raise pf and try to isolate limpers and pickup the dead money from them and the blinds. Limping and then calling a raise from SB is very weak. On the flop, you are about 4-1 against to make your flush on the next card. I think shoving is -EV unless your K and J have outs, bu i wouldnt count on it. I think your only option is to call provided that you can get villains remaining stack if you hit it. If it doesnt hit and villain fires again/shoves I think you have to fold. This is 2NL, so I am not counting on any fold equity.

[Brocktoon]

[ QUOTE ]
I can begin to see in retrospect I definitely should NOT have shoved teh flop, I'm thinking something in the context of his play made me fold... wasn't a read though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that's what you meant to say.

EDIT: I'm wrong here, please disregard this post. I'm only leaving it up and not deleting it since it has already been commented on. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Chargers In 07]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can begin to see in retrospect I definitely should NOT have shoved teh flop, I'm thinking something in the context of his play made me fold... wasn't a read though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that's what you meant to say.

[/ QUOTE ]Did you see my math? Why would you not shove here?

[Brocktoon]

[ QUOTE ]
the vast majority of the players are raising any faces, any pp, and usually more... do I still fold the KJo with such donkish pf raises?


[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, I doubt that a 5x raise from a medium stack out of the SB and after a bunch of limpers is coming from as wide of a range as you think. Without a read I would give him credit for a premium hand there.

Secondly, YES, you still fold the KJo even if people are raising with less than perhaps they should be. KJo is simply too easily dominated and apt to make expensive 2nd best hands to be played for big raises in multiway pots.

The newer you are to the game the more easily you should be mucking hands like KJo preflop. Even to an expert they are very difficult to play, in the hands of a beginner they are deadly.

[Brocktoon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can begin to see in retrospect I definitely should NOT have shoved teh flop, I'm thinking something in the context of his play made me fold... wasn't a read though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that's what you meant to say.

[/ QUOTE ]Did you see my math? Why would you not shove here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I must be out of it this morning. For some reason the word 'shoved' in that quote = 'folded' in my brain.

As you can see by my initial post in this thread I also think that shoving this flop is the obvious play.

Please ignore my 2nd post as it appears upon further review that I am at least semi-illiterate today.

[JereLock]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can begin to see in retrospect I definitely should NOT have shoved teh flop, I'm thinking something in the context of his play made me fold... wasn't a read though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that's what you meant to say.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't quite understand the fold pf... but as played shove flop is what I meant