Maybe I don't c/r the flop enough.

[poincaraux]

If I'm MP here, I don't think I c/r like ever. What's he c/r-ing with, and should I start doing it?

This is my first orbit at the table, so no reads.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $47.75
MP: $65.35
CO: $65.50
Hero (BTN): $51.60
SB: $83.65
BB: $54.55

Pre-Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $1.75</font>, CO folds, Hero calls $1.75, SB folds, BB calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, MP checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3.50</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $8.50</font>

[kaz2107]

kinda depends on situations. it is super effective if u do it against the right villians on the right flops. makes u really tough to play against imo

[Profish2285]

Snap fold against someone with no reads. If you want to start c/r-ing with air, do it on paired boards with no flush draw ideally.

[trontron]

I fold preflop nearly all the time with 100bb-stacks and against a "normal" villain.

i think he has a jack here most of the time. and no, he shouldn't c/r here and CB instead with most of his range.

yes, you should start c/r the flop, but not like MP did. if villain is able to fold ace-high, and the flop texture is good (so it's unlikely he has hit the flop), i would c/r his cb quite often.

e.g.
effective stack 100bb

villains opens in CO to 4bb, you call in BB with JhTh, flop comes 775 rainbow, you check, villain cbets, you c/r, villain folds.
i'm not saying do this all the time. but from time to time and against the right villain, it's quite useful.

[Micro Donk]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop nearly all the time with 100bb-stacks and against a "normal" villain.

i think he has a jack here most of the time. and no, he shouldn't c/r here and CB instead with most of his range.

yes, you should start c/r the flop, but not like MP did. if villain is able to fold ace-high, and the flop texture is good (so it's unlikely he has hit the flop), i would c/r his cb quite often.

e.g.
effective stack 100bb

villains opens in CO to 4bb, you call in BB with JhTh, flop comes 775 rainbow, you check, villain cbets, you c/r, villain folds.
i'm not saying do this all the time. but from time to time and against the right villain, it's quite useful.

[/ QUOTE ]

i drather 3bet pre in that example

[poincaraux]

[ QUOTE ]
kinda depends on situations. it is super effective if u do it against the right villians on the right flops. makes u really tough to play against imo

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it sure made this guy a little more interesting to play against.

Thanks for the good advice so far folks

[trontron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop nearly all the time with 100bb-stacks and against a "normal" villain.

i think he has a jack here most of the time. and no, he shouldn't c/r here and CB instead with most of his range.

yes, you should start c/r the flop, but not like MP did. if villain is able to fold ace-high, and the flop texture is good (so it's unlikely he has hit the flop), i would c/r his cb quite often.

e.g.
effective stack 100bb

villains opens in CO to 4bb, you call in BB with JhTh, flop comes 775 rainbow, you check, villain cbets, you c/r, villain folds.
i'm not saying do this all the time. but from time to time and against the right villain, it's quite useful.

[/ QUOTE ]

i drather 3bet pre in that example

[/ QUOTE ]

me too. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
but for sake of the example, i kept it easy. nearly wrote something like "i would raise/fold pre, but let's ignore this..."

[ICMoney]

I CR paired flops like this if:

Pot is HU.
He CBs &gt;75%.
He doesn't go to showdown a lot.
He folds to flop raises a fair amount.
I haven't floated/3b him for a few hands.

I do this with overs, draw.

If I have CR him before I do this with 77+ also.


I take the same logic with dry flops like:
A59r
4J7r
etc.

On these dry flops they usually type, "Nice set." and fold.

[Shattered]

Without any reads, MP has trips+ just about always. It's very likely that he's the standard "Bet with air, play tricky with good hands" type that is so common at uNL.

As for your question, I just find it's easier to straight up bet your hands instead of trying to be tricky against the vast majority of opponents. Check-raising is rarely, if ever, the standard play if you've taken the lead preflop as it either gives away the strength of or overreps your hand (when you're betting for value) or makes your bluff much more expensive. For example, check-raising a medium strength hand on a dry board is a really bad idea. Furthermore, you always run the risk that they check behind, which is why going for a check-raise with a made hand on a wet board is an even worse idea.

That said, check-raising has its applications and can really help out your winrate. Fish and TAGs alike *hate* having their c-bets repeatedly check-raised and after a couple times, if they're the type to get frustrated easily, they will often dump their stack in the middle with 2nd pair (or hell, absolutely nothing. It's not all that rare). Mixing it up by CRing flops with both air and strength can bring in a lot of extra pots and make you hard to read, and check-raising a standard button-raiser on a 337 flop with air is usually a profitable move. Just make sure that a CR from you doesn't always mean the same thing, and make a point of having the goods when your opponents start getting frustrated.